Veganism

[Disagreeable]

I think that my assumption is justified because slavery was immoral prior to it being illegal. So they're not synonymous.

Whether slavery was immoral prior to it being illegal seems to rely upon the same assumption that morality and legality are not synonymous, which seems little more than a bare assertion.

This is simply doubling down rather than providing a reason for the assumption.

Well, like I said, I'd rather not bother justifying that one. I take it as a platitude. Doesn't mean that I don't have my reasons but then those reasons would also require justification and so on. I'm not really interested in justifying what I consider to be a platitude.What do you believe? Do you believe morality and legality are not synonymous?

If you're curious about my epistemology I'm quite attracted to phenomenal conservatism.

[Angrboda]

Whether slavery was immoral prior to it being illegal seems to rely upon the same assumption that morality and legality are not synonymous, which seems little more than a bare assertion.

This is simply doubling down rather than providing a reason for the assumption.

Well, like I said, I'd rather not bother justifying that one. I take it as a platitude. What do you believe?  Do you believe morality and legality are not synonymous?

I prefer to keep an open mind in the absence of compelling argument. Perhaps that is a bottomless pit given the ostensible requirement of unjustified assumptions in any system, but I'll wait until evidence provides clearer direction.

[Disagreeable]

Well, like I said, I'd rather not bother justifying that one. I take it as a platitude. What do you believe?  Do you believe morality and legality are not synonymous?

I prefer to keep an open mind in the absence of compelling argument.  Perhaps that is a bottomless pit given the ostensible requirement of unjustified assumptions in any system, but I'll wait until evidence provides clearer direction.

Yeah, it's hard to justify assumptions sometimes.

I think that suffering is bad but if you ask me why suffering is bad then I'll say that it just is. I don't really have an argument for why suffering is bad, I just think that it's bad phenomenologically.

I have another question. When you say you're keeping an open mind until you have further evidence are you saying that you don't have evidence for claims to morality or immorality so you are suspending judgement about all claims to morality or immorality, therefore you're defauting to a sort of amoralism?

Another, quicker, question: Do you have any moral beliefs?

[The Grand Nudger]

I can see how a thing might be objectively immoral and morally permissible.  Alot of things, actually.  I could easily believe that eating meat is one of those things.

I guess it is possible to define the terms in such a way so that something can be immoral but permissible.

The distinction between moral obligations and moral virtues might be relevant.

I think so.  It might be morally virtuous for me to be an ethical vegan, but I'm not morally obligated to be one or to consider anyone who isn't an ethical vegan morally incompetent. Similar to it being (at least possibly) immoral for neighbors to fight, but that doesn't obligate me, or even give me warrant, to break them apart.

[Angrboda]

I prefer to keep an open mind in the absence of compelling argument.  Perhaps that is a bottomless pit given the ostensible requirement of unjustified assumptions in any system, but I'll wait until evidence provides clearer direction.

Yeah, it's hard to justify assumptions sometimes.

I think that suffering is bad but if you ask me why suffering is bad then I'll say that it just is. I don't really have an argument for why suffering is bad, I just think that it's bad phenomenologically.

I have another question. When you say you're keeping an open mind until you have further evidence are you saying that you don't have evidence for claims to morality or immorality so you are suspending judgement about all claims to morality or immorality, therefore you're defauting to a sort of amoralism?

Another, quicker, question: Do you have any moral beliefs?

When I say I'm keeping an open-mind I mean about the nature of ethics and morality. In practice, I think morals are a mix of intuition, psychology, and political concerns, none of which provide an unshakeable foundation for behavioral imperatives. It's analogous to why I am not a humanist. Practically, humanism is appealing, but I don't see that one can rationally justify it from a philosophical perspective.

[Disagreeable]

Yeah, it's hard to justify assumptions sometimes.

I think that suffering is bad but if you ask me why suffering is bad then I'll say that it just is. I don't really have an argument for why suffering is bad, I just think that it's bad phenomenologically.

I have another question. When you say you're keeping an open mind until you have further evidence are you saying that you don't have evidence for claims to morality or immorality so you are suspending judgement about all claims to morality or immorality, therefore you're defauting to a sort of amoralism?

Another, quicker, question: Do you have any moral beliefs?

When I say I'm keeping an open-mind I mean about the nature of ethics and morality.  In practice, I think morals are a mix of intuition, psychology, and political concerns, none of which provide an unshakeable foundation for behavioral imperatives.  It's analogous to why I am not a humanist.  Practically, humanism is appealing, but I don't see that one can rationally justify it from a philosophical perspective.

Interesting take. So would you also say that you try to act morally in practice but you don't positively believe that you can act morally in principle?

[Disagreeable]

I guess it is possible to define the terms in such a way so that something can be immoral but permissible.

The distinction between moral obligations and moral virtues might be relevant.

I think so.  It might be morally virtuous for me to be an ethical vegan, but I'm not morally obligated to be one or to consider anyone who isn't an ethical vegan morally incompetent.  Similar to it being (at least possibly) immoral for neighbors to fight, but that doesn't obligate me, or even give me warrant, to break them apart.

Do you think that whether or not to own human slaves is also a question of moral virtue rather than moral obligation? Or do you think that that is more important than the vegan issue, morally speaking?

[Angrboda]

When I say I'm keeping an open-mind I mean about the nature of ethics and morality.  In practice, I think morals are a mix of intuition, psychology, and political concerns, none of which provide an unshakeable foundation for behavioral imperatives.  It's analogous to why I am not a humanist.  Practically, humanism is appealing, but I don't see that one can rationally justify it from a philosophical perspective.

Interesting take. So would you also say that you try to act morally in practice but you don't positively believe that you can act morally in principle?

I don't try to act morally so much as I try not to act immorally, and that's more habitual and reflexive than anything. I see people on the bus engaging in behaviors that I would not engage in, but I wouldn't ascribe a moral judgment to said behavior, as I think a lot of it is cultural. If my morality consists in mores that are determined by the culture that I'm a part of, that tends to undermine any tendency towards judgmentalism. I think you are more or less correct in that I don't act out of principle as I don't subscribe to any non-contingent principles concerning morals.

[Disagreeable]

I don't try to act morally so much as I try not to act immorally, and that's more habitual and reflexive than anything.  

Hot take: I think that the so-called 'Silver Rule' is superior to the 'Golden Rule'. Not doing to others what you wouldn't have done to you is a wiser principle than doing to others what you would have done to you.

[The Grand Nudger]

I don't think that I'd call it less important. Slaves are livestock. I bet the same sorts of people who think we shouldn't keep slaves think we shouldn't mistreat livestock either. Then again, there have been vegan slavers - so that's probably more of a heuristic than a rule.