How Do We Behave?

[Girlysprite]

Would a perfectly moral god allow it to happen then? Amongst humans, people are critisized for just looking on when we witness someone getting beaten, for example. For an all powerful creature it sure would have been easy to change that.
Anyways, doesn't really matter.

If the bible reports on a morally perfect god, it does mean that all the rules laid out in the bible don't mean much. After all, they have been made by morally imperfect people who even lived in completely other times. Following your logic, those rules aren't really meant to be followed anymore - is that right?

[fr0d0]

Yeah God created us with the freedom to do what we want/ be bad if that's what we choose. It'd be contradictory for him at the same time to stop us. In other words his greater love is to give us freedom.

In a way the rules mean nothing I think. It's not the book we worship but God. The book tells us accurately about God, so that we can measure what we do against it. If what we think conflicts with our knowledge of a loving God then we aren't aiming for his standard.

[Girlysprite]

I understand your interpetation, and I'm not saying it's a wrong one, but there are plenty of believers who think otherwise, of course.

Your view also means that people have to try to interpet whether their actions are wrong or not, which leads to many differing viewpoints. People have to think and look inside to find what the good morals would be...which is pretty much what atheists do too. I think we're not too different. I try to think 'what would make me a good person'. You think 'what makes me a good person in the eyes of the loving god'.

[tackattack]

I don't think there's even that much difference. I try to think think "What would make me a good person" I don't deny the subjectivity of personal morality, which you and I probably define the same. I however believe that there is an objective moral standard, so I just take an additional step. So I ask the first question and follow it up with "How does this compare with an objective moral standard". Your moral standard for comparison might even extend to your societal morality.

[Girlysprite]

I also think that the baseline is the same everywhere. Murder, rape, thievery - people everywhere will accept that generally, it is no good. However, all the exception where these actions can be applied anyways, or can even be considered good, vary to a great degree. For example - there is a great discussion since...forever...if the state should be allowed to use the death penalty against criminals, and what crime would warrant that. You'll find a colorful array of opinion on that matter alone. Exceptions are also granted based on the identity of the target. Most people who wouldn't think that murder was any good still eat meat. It seems that the rule does not extend to animals. However, some have started to question that too (and call it speciesism) and become vegetarians or vegans. It seems that generally, the less the target is 'like us', the more lax the rules are. The vegetarians from the last example can identify with a cow to some extend, but a number of them would still swat at a wasp or fly. These creatures are even less like us then a cow is, so the rules are more lax on that target.

It's not something people really think about, but it seems to be that it works like this generally.

[Emanuel]

Would a perfectly moral god allow it to happen then? Amongst humans, people are critisized for just looking on when we witness someone getting beaten, for example. For an all powerful creature it sure would have been easy to change that.

This made me remember something I read a while ago. I am of the opinion that it answers this objection fairly well, but I might be wrong.

[Girlysprite]

While the article is kind of okay, it doesn't really answer my point.
You see, the rules about slavery written in the exodus statement come from god himself. If he didn't like slavery, why makes rules about how to treat slaves, and not just say 'hey, slavery, don't practice that'. I just checked with my own bible - after the basic commandments, there is a whole list of which in the start is made clear that GOD wants the people to obey these rules too.

[fr0d0]

I contend that God's guidance on slavery is going further than modern day employers in promoting fairness. The bible is giving guidance to people where they are at. That guidance applies equally to us if we care to apply it to this time.

Slavery is bad to us from our subjective moral stance. To that culture the abolition of slavery would have made no sense.

[Napoléon]

I contend that God's guidance on slavery is going further than modern day employers in promoting fairness. The bible is giving guidance to people where they are at. That guidance applies equally to us if we care to apply it to this time.

Slavery is bad to us from our subjective moral stance. To that culture the abolition of slavery would have made no sense.

I thought god wasn't concerned with subjective moral stances?

If god's rules are the rules, then why the fuck do we think slavery is wrong at this point in time? Do you condone slavery?

[Girlysprite]

Wait what? Fair?
You can force your slave to marry you? Oh, and if you don't give her the things she has a right to as a wife, she can go (yay, free!) - butwithout any money or anything else (how would she survive?).
You can beat them to an inch of their life - hey as long as you don't kill them?

Let's be clear, the 'nice' rules are only for the slaves of hebrew descent. Yes, those people are actually just a sort of servents. But no so for the slaves of other origins! Those are slaves for life, can be inherited as their master dies, and there are barely any rules to protect them, other then 'do not kill it'. Slaves from other origins are lifestock, and their master can pretty much do with them as he pleases.