Proverbs 16:4

[Faith No More]

Either God did create evil, he saw evil as a consequence of his creation and did nothing about it, or his 'perfect' creations were deeply flawed.

False trichotomy.

Then propose something that doesn't fit in there. You can't just call it false and then propose nothing for why it's false. And I noticed you ignored the comment about how even though God didn't create televisions he created the capacity for them, which is exactly the same for evil or anything else that exists.

[Nimzo]

Then propose something that doesn't fit in there.

You are the one who made the claim that there are only three options - please demonstrate that these are the only logically possible ones.

And I noticed you ignored the comment about how even though God didn't create televisions he created the capacity for them, which is exactly the same for evil or anything else that exists.

Because it had nothing to do with the point I was making in that post.

[Faith No More]

You are the one who made the claim that there are only three options - please demonstrate that these are the only logically possible ones.

Let's assume what you've been saying is right, then these are the two knowns. God created everything, and evil exists. There are only three ways this is possible. God created it, he allowed it, or he screwed up and is inept to fix it.

And I noticed you ignored the comment about how even though God didn't create televisions he created the capacity for them, which is exactly the same for evil or anything else that exists.

Because it had nothing to do with the point I was making in that post.

Actually, it had everything to do with your post. You declared that God didn't create televisions implying that there are things he did not create, such as evil. I'm pointing out you that if your God exists, he is responsible for everything.

[reverendjeremiah]

Rev Jerry<--- ---> GAWD

<---Min watching Jerry go off on GAWD

<--- Waldorf, regardless of the circumstances

[Statler Waldorf]

Wow, my name gets brought up in threads I have not even posted in yet...

The Hebrew word "Rah" can be translated in many different ways; yes evil is one of these ways. However, this is not always referring to a moral evil, but rather a "calamity", "disaster", or "trouble" as illustrated by the ESV below.

"4(E) The LORD has made everything for its purpose,
even(F) the wicked for the day of trouble.
5Everyone who is arrogant in heart is(G) an abomination to the LORD;
(H) be assured, he will not go unpunished.
6By(I) steadfast love and faithfulness iniquity is atoned for,
and by(J) the fear of the LORD one(K) turns away from evil."

I believe the verse is demonstrating the fact that God brings glory to Himself through the judgment of the wicked and the redemption of the wicked. I see no issues with this verse. I have no idea why atheists always appeal to some mysterious objective standard of good and evil and yet I have never met one who can articulate what that standard is and how a person can determine it.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

I believe the verse is demonstrating the fact that God brings glory to Himself through the judgment of the wicked and the redemption of the wicked

How nice for you. I'll be just thrilled to share your belief if you could perhaps begin with some evidence for the existence of god,any god.. Unfortunately for you and your personal superstitions, I think even that's a long way from demonstrating the existence of revealed truths.

[RDK]

If God designs a universe where everything in it is planned, then no one else could be responsible but the designer of it all. God knows the future and designed evil for a particular good purpose. Why skip all around about this subject. God knows the future and everything else that is going to happen. In Romans, Paul suggests that God made two pots. One was to be filled and used for righteous things and the other was to be filled with wickedness and to be ultimately destroyed. Paul writes, why could anyone be found guilty if everyone is designated as one of these pots. Why would God still find fault if they were designed this way. The question does not get answered here in this scripture Romans 9-19. This whole chapter is dealing with the notion that God knows the future of all things, including evil, and that it is here for a purpose.
If everything remains perfect all of the time, there is no challenge as to the depth of God's love. God designed the presence of evil to allow us to fall by the evil influence for a time. Our falling into the way of evil might preclude the possibility of anyone returning to His family EVER! But, God did want us to know that He still loves us anyway. That was the whole of the Jesus message. God showing us that He knew that we had the propensity for failure, but that He would accept us back anyway. In a perfect world, the word forgive would never have been known. It shows more love to accept a fallen son or daughter back into the family after a crime than if nothing bad had ever happened.
Yes, it appears that God is awful by letting us suffer here, but without the suffering we would never really value the perfect place. You just don't value the strength of the best soap until it is tried out on the dirtiest of things. God's love is the soap.

[Eudaimonia]

Why does the God of the Bible require learning Hebrew.. Mastering Reading Comprehension etc.. The mass of people are largely not sophisticated biblical scholars and to some degree lteralist.. and/or heavily dependent upon scholar/preacher interpretation to justify their beliefs....


Why not create a document that is accessible to all including doubters? Why is it necessary to comb through ancient texts? Perhaps Christians think believers are all going through some kind of life literary test.. where they must devote themselves to understanding and "hope" they come up with the right answers..

[Minimalist]

Why does the God of the Bible require learning Hebrew

Oddly, all that shit was written in Greek.

[Godscreated]

Proverbs 16:4
The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.


God created all things. God created me. God created evil. God created sin. God created me knowing I (and everyone) would sin. Then God sends me to hell. Fair?

I would like to hear the Christian opinion of, when looking at this verse, how me (or anyone) going to hell would be justified.

I noticed in your comment that you are blaming God for all things, how so, He gave us all freewill to choose and you chose to sin. God did not force you to sin so how is He to blame for your actions, because He fore knew your actions, that does not qualify as Him being responsible for your wrong doing. I know that God did not create sin nor evil, but if He had you still have no valid point, you are responsible for your own actions. By your standard the government that makes it a law,that stealing is a crime, should have to be reponsible for the crime of thief committed by someone because that government fore knew someone would commit such a crime. God has give a person a way of redemption they need only to choose it. You should have read all of chapter 16 and you would have understood what was written. You have said that I'm ignorant about numerous subjects because I have not read and studied them, well the same can be said here about you. You read scripture with the point of trying to find contradictions or to place blame on God for your actions and ect.,you also say that the various writters of scriptures can not keep their writings consistant, well I know I can take the papers written by various scientist and show many inconsistances and even down right falsehood about evolution but to you that's OK for them to do. So where is your consistancy of thought.

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Why does the God of the Bible require learning Hebrew.. Mastering Reading Comprehension etc.. The mass of people are largely not sophisticated biblical scholars and to some degree lteralist.. and/or heavily dependent upon scholar/preacher interpretation to justify their beliefs....


Why not create a document that is accessible to all including doubters? Why is it necessary to comb through ancient texts? Perhaps Christians think believers are all going through some kind of life literary test.. where they must devote themselves to understanding and "hope" they come up with the right answers..

He doesn't, thats why the plan of salvation is so simple and when it come's down to it that's all that is required, belief in the plan. The reason we have to comb through ancient text is simple, it's ancient, and that means that english was not available to them. As far as the right answer goes, well that's simple too, genuine belief in the Son of God, Christ Jesus.