Christians

[Epimethean]

It is as clear as mud, which is why so many Christians argue over the one vs three, multiple personality divinity.

And there is zero evidence that Jesus rose from the dead. Elvis has as much. Rabid fans will see what they want whenever they want.

Kool aid drinkers, all.

[Statler Waldorf]

[Faith No More]

[DeistPaladin]

I disagree my friend. Both the New and Old Testament are filled with Trinitarian language and concepts. Even the Gospel of Matthew establishes the fact that Jesus was eternal in the 28th Chapter, "20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” The Trinity is a beautiful and necessary Christian Dogma that is arrived at systematically, by looking at scripture as a whole, not just one verse, passage, or book.

Matt 28:20? Seriously? I'd have thought you'd at least have tried his misquote of Isaiah 7:14.

Actual research of Christian history and reading the books of the NT in the order they were written shows how Christian dogma developed and changed over time. The reason for the Trinity was so they could keep the OT with it's appeal to antiquity. Otherwise, the Romans would never have accepted it. But for that need, they would have gone with Marcionite Christianity. It at least is more internally consistent.

Actually the trinity is a concept that nearly all Christian denominations are united on.
There are eye witness accounts of Jesus after His death according to the historian Luke, so to say there is zero evidence is being disingenuous. You should probably rephrase that to say, "There isn't any evidence I accept for Jesus' resurrection."

Every time I hear Christians hold up their mythology as "historical documentation" that proves their mythology to be true, I have to chuckle, thinking of that movie where some aliens see an earth TV show and think it's a historical account. Got anything outside of Christian mythology?

[Epimethean]

It's always worth a laugh, that "evidence."

[Statler Waldorf]

[Minimalist]

[Epimethean]

"Your reluctance to accept it is not funny to me."

If I can bring the Easter Bunny to the next dance, you can bring J.C. or his pal the Sacred Zippo. We can sit down and talk over drinks. For you, Triple Awesome Grape; for me, a beer.

[DeistPaladin]

You claimed there was no evidence in Matthew or Mark supporting the Trinity, so I gave you an example and you reply by saying "seriously?" ? That's it?

Yes, because the example you provided does nothing of the kind. Do you want to try again or do you care to explain why that verse suggests that Jesus is one with Yahweh?

1. There is nothing even close to a consensus as to exactly what order the books of the NT were written in.

I've never heard of any controversy regarding the order of authorship and I'm going by Christian apologist assertions.

2. The teaching of Jesus' resurrection is so foreign to the Jewish concept of death that it can hardly be called an appeal to antiquity. Rather it was a radical concept.

Point flew over your head.

At Nicaea, Marcionism was a major contender but it failed only because it had no appeal to antiquity. It was a new religion. Christianity needed the OT to gain the legitimacy that the Romans felt antiquity provided.

3. Your assertions about the disciples’ motives are nothing but pure speculation.

Actually, the motives of those at Nicaea and prior to it are documented. Do a little digging and you may find there was no "original church" that Protestants like to dream about but many different Christianities.

4. Galaxy Quest references aside, there is nothing wrong with using scripture to uphold scripture. In fact, many historians agree that people witnessed Christ after his death. So you may not accept this evidence but don't claim it does not exist.

Mythology is not evidence. If the whole world said otherwise, it would not make it so. Christians agree when we're discussing the claims of other religions. The Iliad is not held up as historical documentation on the existence of Zeus.

I wouldn't be surprised if most of the "historians" you claim accept mythology as "evidence" are Christian apologists.

Personally, I hope one day we live in a truly rational society where anyone seriously holding up the Bible as reliable eye-witness accounts or historical documentation is simply laughed out of the room with no time wasted on discussion.

[Epimethean]

Didn't Yahweh have to kick all the other gods' asses before he declared the bit about thou shalt have no gods before me? They all come from polytheistic roots, and sometimes it just shows through the green curtain that they are puppeting older stuff while singing a catchy new tune.

Granted, that tune was hip when Constantine had his bad dream, which I think was probably the result of a bad bit of beef.