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RE: Christians
June 18, 2011 at 10:42 pm
(June 18, 2011 at 3:42 pm)Ryft Wrote: You begin by getting trinitarianism right, but then end by getting it wrong. That is rather curious.
How do you know I got it wrong? Nobody really understands it.
bold emphasis of your post mine:
Quote:If God is in three separate persons, as trinitarianism teaches, then Jesus cannot be a separate being from Yahweh;
So three separate persons can't be separate from each other? Jesus is a separate person from Yahweh but can't be separate? I'm so glad you cleared that up.
Quote:He was praying to the Father who is God no more or less than Jesus himself is; that is, he was praying to a distinct person, not a distinct god.
So he's a distinct being with a different will but part of the same god and therefore the same being but they're separate and distinct but not?
Quote:All of Paul's letters predate both the synoptics and John's gospel, as do other letters in the New Testament, all of which correspond to the rich Christology and soteriology found in John's gospel (e.g., Titus 2:13).
Roughly half the epistles of Paul are of dubious authenticity. Titus is one of the dubious epistles.
Quote:That the scriptures, ancient creeds, liturgies, systematics and so forth all confirm that orthodox Christianity has never taught three separate gods.
There was no orthodox Christianity prior to Nicaea. The Marcionites taught there were two separate gods. The Ebionites taught that Jesus was a mortal adopted by God as a son. The Arians taught that Jesus was an angel. Any of these options were at least consistent and clear about what Jesus was.
Atheist Forums Hall of Shame:
"The trinity can be equated to having your cake and eating it too."
... -Lucent, trying to defend the Trinity concept
"(Yahweh's) actions are good because (Yahweh) is the ultimate standard of goodness. That’s not begging the question"
... -Statler Waldorf, Christian apologist
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 3:03 am
(June 17, 2011 at 8:35 am)DeistPaladin Wrote: (June 17, 2011 at 2:36 am)Ryft Wrote: I have witnessed some extraordinary mental gymnastics here over the years but I cannot even imagine the sort required to argue that "a god" constitutes polytheism. Statler beat me to the punch when he said, "You just proved his point." When you are reduced to stating that "a god" constitutes polytheism, it would seem the confusion is indeed yours.
:roflol:
I laughed when I read this, trying to take in the overwhelming irony of a Christian defending the concept of the Trinity (and citing arguments presented by Statler to boot) accusing a skeptic of "mental gymnastics". You've done some textbook projection here before, Ryft, but this one takes the cake.
Yes, Ryft, you claim to believe in "one god". The part you gloss over is that this "one god" is composed of three separate beings. That's where the polytheism part comes in. It's not the "one god" that's polytheistic. It's the "three separate beings" part. Essentially, Trinitarian Christianity is unique among religions in that it is both monotheistic and polytheistic at the same time. Anyone who seriously tries to defend this concept should not bandy around accusations of "mental gymnastics" and "confusion".
It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is. First thing here is that no christians I know, and that would be many, believe that God is three separate Gods. We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons, not three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I do not understand why you can not see this, or maybe you can and do not want to admit your argument is wrong. Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will. Every polytheistic religion has different gods with different agenda and this is not so in christianity, the three persons of Yehweh have the same will (agenda).
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 4:13 am
What a crock of shit. How can you be so gullible? How can you seriously believe it and not feel an inkling of stupidity? Or do you?
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 4:42 am
Quote:It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is
Oh, look. The peanut gallery has arrived to pour shit on the fire!
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 5:00 am
(June 19, 2011 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons, not three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I do not understand why you can not see this
DERRRR DO YOU HERP WHEN YOU DERP? DERRRRR
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 9:17 am
(June 19, 2011 at 3:03 am)Godschild Wrote: It is not Ryft nor Statler Waldorf that's confused DP, it is you that has no idea of what the Trinity is. First thing here is that no christians I know, and that would be many, believe that God is three separate Gods. We worship only one God who is Yahweh who is the three persons, not three Gods, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I do not understand why you can not see this, or maybe you can and do not want to admit your argument is wrong. Polytheism would have each of the three as separate Gods and of separate minds, separate thoughts and separate wills, however they are of the same mind, same thoughts and same will. Every polytheistic religion has different gods with different agenda and this is not so in christianity, the three persons of Yehweh have the same will (agenda).
Ok so God is not three gods he's three 'persons'.
Well that clears it up then.
God is schizophranic.
Thats how he can be a kind benevalent mass murderer. 
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 9:25 am
It never ends. "Hey, what we worship is clearly one god, divided into three parts, all of whom are equal total parts of a whole which cannot be divided but which is in a way that you heathens could never understand."
Thank god for that-and I mean it. Christianity is its own worst enemy.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 9:55 am
(June 18, 2011 at 12:51 am)reverendjeremiah Wrote: I brought up Occams razor at work to help someone who thought ghosts were in his house. He got really quiet really quick after he answered "Oh..I get it..so in this case the simplest answer would not include ghosts."
Maybe I reached him...
Occam's razer is quite effective I've noticed.
When theists bring out really complicated explanations and numerous assumptions, Occam's razer just levels everything.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 9:58 am
It certainly is. Religious nuttery doesn't sit well under a microscope. No wiggle room and it's out.
Trying to update my sig ...
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RE: Christians
June 19, 2011 at 10:30 am
(June 19, 2011 at 9:58 am)Epimethean Wrote: It certainly is. Religious nuttery doesn't sit well under a microscope. No wiggle room and it's out.
I've noticed religious nuts always trying to wiggle themselves out of everything. Always moving goal posts.
I just stick to Occam's razer, sit back and watch theists try to wiggle out of it.
Quote:The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct.
I love using Occam's razer. Good problem solver.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - Carl Sagan
Mankind's intelligence walks hand in hand with it's stupidity.
Being an atheist says nothing about your overall intelligence, it just means you don't believe in god. Atheists can be as bright as any scientist and as stupid as any creationist.
You never really know just how stupid someone is, until you've argued with them.
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