Jesus is God

[Parture]

If you are sincere and intellectually honest with yourself you will ask yourself this life changing question. The alternative is to remain eternally separated from your Creator. Free will is not true free will unless you have this choice. You wouldn't want it any other way for anything else is lesser, unsatisfying, insufficient and deficient.

Since almost all scholars in this field agree based on historical standards the original disciples truly believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings and Jesus was the most documented person in antiquity (i.e. 45 sources within 150 years of his death, 17 of which are non-Christian), it is incumbent on you (i.e., burden of proof) to find a naturalistic explanation for the origin of the disciples' beliefs for their eyewitness testimony. Otherwise your faith is blind, self indulgent, illogical and unjustifiable. What say you?

I hold the same standard for myself that I judge you with. "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again" (Matt. 7.2). But since I give into this evidence I will not be judged for the judgment that comes upon a person who rejects Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, Creator, 2nd Person of the Trinity, died on the cross for the sins of the world (to save whosoever is willing to believe in Him, John 3.16), and resurrected the third day to give everlasting life-eternal life as opposed to conscious eternal separation in eternal perdition (Hell). "And death and hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire" (v.14) which is Hell. Unlike any natural fire that burns out, this one never does. "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone" (14.10), and "they have no rest day nor night" (v.11), for it "will never burn out" (Matt. 25.41). They "will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out" (Is. 66.24). This fire represents eternal judgment from which there is no escape nor would the unsaved want to leave this place, because they want to be eternally separated from God. This place has no love, no peace and no joy. Most of all it is without God's presence.

Many theories have been put forth to try to refute this truth but they don't work:

1. Hallucination theory fails because modern psychology says group hallucinations are impossible.
2. Swoon theory fails because Jesus wouldn't have look much like a risen Messiah all beat up.
3. Empty tomb theory doesn't present any challenge to their eyewitness testimony.
4. Twin theory is silly for no mention is made of this twin brother amongst Jesus' brothers and sisters.
5. Legend theory fails because no documents in antiquity are so closely recorded to the time of events.
6. Fraud theory is unworkable because people don't willingly die for what they know is a lie.
7. Independent story is not tenable because of so much corroboration, e.g. second generation apostle Polycarp was a student of John and Clement of Rome was friends with Peter, and multiple books with different writing styles cross-reference many workers together setting up the churches, e.g. Paul said he spent 15 days with Peter and with John and James on more than one occasion. Mark and Barnabas worked with Paul, Peter and John. And Luke who wrote Luke and Acts worked with Paul and Peter. To name a few!

In conclusion, a Christian is fully justified in Christ with this evidence. It stands up in a court of law. Christianity is unique because only in our faith does God enter His creation, pays the ransom for sin as only God could do, and proves Himself unequivocally by His resurrection. There can be no greater proof. A non-Christian (Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, etc.) has no evidence for his or her faith for they just take it on blind faith. Understand carefully that believing something doesn't make it true. You need evidence. Amen! "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good" (1 Thess. 5.21).

Unless you believe in Jesus who He truly is, God has no choice but to send you where you want to go. "That is why I said that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM who I claim to be, you will die in your sins" (John 8.24).

[Darwinian]

Any more preaching and you shall be banned. This is a discussion forum not a place for you to tell us that we must do this or think that or we'll go to hell or be punished or whatever it is you are whittering on about.

If you have anything interesting or original to say then please say it, otherwise return from whence ye came.

[DaveD]

In conclusion, a Christian is fully justified in Christ with this evidence. It stands up in a court of law.

No it doesn't. It's all hearsay, and hearsay is inadmissible in any civilised court of law.

[Parture]

No it doesn't. It's all hearsay, and hearsay is inadmissible in any civilised court of law.

Historians can glean certain facts from these historical documents as other historical documents. One of those facts is that the disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation.

The lawyer who won 400 cases in a row in the Guiness Book of Records said this evidence is the best case he has ever seen.

The most famous lawyer of the 19th century Simon Greenleaf (who produced more jurisprudence than all the lawyers in Europe combined) said,

"This ancient document, the Scripture, has come from the proper repository, that is, it is has been in the hands of the persons of the Church for 2000 years almost and it bears on its face no evident marks of forgery, and therefore the law presumes it to be genuine, and those who would presume otherwise upon them devolves the responsibility of proving it to be false. We don't have to prove it to be true. They have to prove it to be false. That's what the law says."

[BloodyHeretic]

No it doesn't. It's all hearsay, and hearsay is inadmissible in any civilised court of law.

Historians can glean certain facts from these historical documents as other historical documents. One of those facts is that the disciples truly believed they had seen Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings for which there is no naturalistic explanation.

Believed indeed. I thought you were talking about facts?

[Faith No More]

Do Christians ever have one original thought? The person that wrote the post about being offended about religious people not being labeled freethinkers needs to have a look at this post.

[Parture]

Believed indeed. I thought you were talking about facts?

It is a fact by this evidence they believed they saw Jesus alive from the dead in various group settings, and it is a fact you can't find a naturalistic explanation to account for their eyewitness testimony, therefore, it is a fact you prove Jesus resurrected Himself and that He is God.

[DaveD]

Historians can glean certain facts from these historical documents as other historical documents.

When the details vary so much between the gospels, and indeed other biblical texts, no facts can be gleaned at all, only inferences and then only in support of the reader's existing bias.
The bible is also at odds with every other known source that deals with the period claimed.

[Parture]

When the details vary so much between the gospels, and indeed other biblical texts, no facts can be gleaned at all, only inferences and then only in support of the reader's existing bias.
The bible is also at odds with every other known source that deals with the period claimed.

I haven't been able to find any variances or it being at odds with non-Biblical texts. Nor could you.

Nor is that even a concern because you can prove Jesus resurrected without even going to the gospels. Scholars are asked which chapters of the Bible are they most convinced are authentic. They always agree 1 Cor. 15, Gal. 1 & 2 are definitely Paul's writing.

Paul said in these 3 chapters he spent 15 days with Peter, and with James and John on more than one occasion. He recounted the gospel creed and gave several appearances of the resurrected Jesus he received from the original Apostles.

So the burden is on you to find a naturalistic explanation to account for their eyewitness testimony in various group settings because nobody has been able to.

The first churches were set up based on the appearances of the resurrected Jesus.

[Faith No More]

So the burden is on you to find a naturalistic explanation to account for their eyewitness testimony in various group settings because nobody has been able to.

It's all a fairy tale.