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How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
#21
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
Hey guys just to pass on my experience with muslims, as I have some muslim family members. I would say even the most non religious muslims, still in some capacity hold their faith close to there hearts on some particulars. That may seem like a contradiction but I will try best to explain. I believe it is all down to indoctrination as a child, because I have noticed a strong correlation between what was taught as a child and what they beleive in adulthood.

For example the first time I had a conversation with a family member about evolving from monkeys, and darwinism, he was in fits of laughter. He thought at first I was making a joke. For him, God made mankind, and he made monkeys seperate. It was kind of like christian creationists view on life, except this family member had never been exposed even to the concept of darwinism unlike many christians in the western world have. For him it was hilarious. It was clear to me that I would never get through some of the arguments to him, because it was as if there were 3 layers of security barrier in his brain to stop any common sense getting through.

Now back to the contradiction example, in that muslims may not be religious but still hold aspects of their faith close to them. I heard a story of some moroccan arabs living in Europe somewere either germany or holland. Apparantly they were all having a heavy drinking session at a flat (around 5 or 6 of them) when the owner of the flat went to go get some more beers. Apparantly when he got back to the house the place had been destroyed. And it was clear that some kind of fight had taken place. The owner was furious, at the destruction of his home and asked what happened. His friends tried to explain that they had a conversation on religion and the prophet mohammed, and one of the other friends had "cursed the prophet and his existance". The guy who made the insult had to literally run for his life, as the other members were going to do him harm. Remember this is a group of people who were drinking which is not permitted in islam.

The owner was even then more furious that they had let him commit such as sin in his home and let him escape. The owner grabbed a kitchen knife, went over to the other mans house, knocked on his door and stabbed him to death. Apparantly he told prosecutors it was for the "honour of islam" and that no one can insult the prophet. ( i never have been able to verify this story other than the ramblings of a saudi sheikh on you tube)

I noticed even with some of my muslim friends, they drink and dont pray, but they will never eat pork at all. And if you discuss theological arguments, they still heavily favour the islamic concept of life and creation. I think its one of the reasons that when the prophet gets in somehow insulted, the mobs hit the streets, or in fact any perceived insult for that matter.

There also seems to be more of a stubborn mindset amongst muslims regarding their faith and religion. Much more of a sheep mentality, than christians. Perhaps because Allah is more about submitting to his will that makes life that little bit easier. It would seem Christianity allows for a bit more interpretation than the quraan, which I believe is regarded as the literal word of god.
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#22
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
I am an ex-Muslim. I think one of the factors that made me disbelief God is that I live in a non-Muslim dominated country. It made me open my mind to other religions and that made me realize that all these stories are full of logically weak, contradicting context. Islam in general is one of the more hard-headed, close-minded religions, not as easy to debate as Christianity. I mean your life is somewhat in danger if you do.
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#23
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
Why would you want to? My father, mother and sister are atheists. I really never heard them discuss how they should convert other people to atheism and all. You are entitled to your opinion, they are to theirs.
However if you want to evangelize, it's your call.
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#24
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
(October 2, 2011 at 9:44 am)kılıç_mehmet Wrote: Why would you want to?

To stop people from being idiots? As naive as that is.
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#25
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
Wow , wow, wow

So much misinterpretation and misguidance. You look at the actions of a few non-religious individuals (one who drinks and not prays) to justify how weak the religion is.

Firstly...debating about evolution and Darwinism. I posted a thread on this quite a while ago... that contrary to popular belief, the Quran does not out right reject it. It something atheist can debate about with Christians...but with Islam its not the case.

Secondly...as to why many Muslims become nonreligious in a western country--what most of you are talking about in your posts. It is because the social systems in place is very liberal at the moment with a sinful monetary system that is supporting it. Islam is a religion that advocates a very conservative approach in both the good times and in the bad times.

During the good times... a liberal approach is obv far more enjoyable than a conservative approach. It's fun to go drink, dance, listen to music, get into heavy debt, living lavishly like a Hollywood star enjoying the giltz and glamor...and not caring one bit about your future. But when the bad times come... you have to go through a lot of pain and suffering to fix your problems/addictions/finances/relationships...etc.

Now people in general (ex-muslims included) think that it is because of the these liberal ways--that the secular nations are technologically superior and "economic powerhouses". That is far from the truth. These countries are in heavy debt and are being propped up right now by other hard working conservative nations.

At the same time, there is unfortunately no true Islamic nation on the planet. It's hard for people to see a true Islamic community--because the systems in place are not Islamic.

For example many of these so called "islamic" governments make it okay for their population to use paper money with interest being permissible. This is totally against the religion. It just makes those connected to the government a lot wealthier, while the rest of the population goes into permanent poverty and destitution. Those who see the corruption, will notice it asap and move out of the country right away. The others will get drawn to a more radical ideology. These angry/uneducated people do evil and then say it's part of Islam when in fact it is not. It than gives a bad/violent image of the religion to the world. No wonder why so many people here have a distaste and hatred towards it.

If you want to see how progressive a true Islamic nation was--look at it during the Islamic golden age. Look at the type of things the scientist back then were studying--while Europe was in the dark ages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alhazen . Also, the character and moral beliefs of the merchants of that era inspired a lot of traders/buyer of southeast asia--where they are now majority Muslim. The golden age ended because the leaders of these nations turned to greed and sinful practices and destroyed the economy.




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#26
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
Oh ruhollah, I remember you...
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#27
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
(October 11, 2011 at 8:38 am)Napoleon Wrote: Oh ruhollah, I remember you...

Yep ruh is still in "the development stage"

Seems he hasn't done much since the last time he posted Undecided
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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#28
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
This is impossible
Verse 9 AL HIJR - Chapter: 015 ##
Virtue may be assailed but never hurt
9- We have sent down the Quran featuring the virtuous divine message of truth which shall never suffer eclipse nor shall its spiritual power ever be on the wane and its preservation against loss and corruption is indeed Our concern.
********************
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#29
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
What point are you trying to make here, buddy?
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#30
RE: How to convert a muslim to an Atheist?
The language of a lunar god. I completely feel for early moon-god worshippers though. All the light, none of the crippling heat. In the desert the agrarian order of society and importance of things seems reversed in all cases but water. What you modern moon worshippers are on about I have no idea moslim.
(October 30, 2011 at 11:50 pm)moslim Wrote: This is impossible
Verse 9 AL HIJR - Chapter: 015 ##
Virtue may be assailed but never hurt
9- We have sent down the Quran featuring the virtuous divine message of truth which shall never suffer eclipse nor shall its spiritual power ever be on the wane and its preservation against loss and corruption is indeed Our concern.
********************

I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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