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I rejoice to be an atheist.
#31
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 6:30 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Well the last UK census revealed 70% of the population considered themselves Christian, I assume that is what these Vexen stats are based on.
If you go look at the other thread Kyu you'll see your figures are vastly incorrect.


(March 5, 2009 at 6:30 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: While I would accept that an awful lot of UK Christians are not regular churchgoers or whatever you cannot simply declare them to be non-Christian in that way
Not completely, but they are a hugely insignificant small number.

(March 5, 2009 at 6:30 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: ... that is, as Adrian has already told you, the No True Scotsman fallacy. Like it or not, if someone believe in and follows the ways of Jesus Christ to some degree (i.e. biblical teachings) then they are a Christian and the really interesting thing about that is it clearly makes Adolph Hitler a Christian.Devil
That's wildly inaccurate. There's no degree about it, you either are or you aren't. Adolf Hitler could have been a Christian. Why couldn't he? Perhaps in some things he was being morally correct. that's the nature of the beast, the line crossing isn't one way, there's no magic panacea.
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#32
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 5:14 am)fr0d0 Wrote:
(March 5, 2009 at 4:40 am)leo-rcc Wrote:
(March 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Others have been more rude to me. I guess they must've been warned and I was unaware. Apologies.

They were, in the same fashion as you were.

Not at all. I only respond to provocation.

No I meant they were warned in the same way you were warned (PM).
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#33
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 8:50 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote:
(March 4, 2009 at 10:58 pm)Mark Wrote:
(March 4, 2009 at 10:29 pm)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Good post. You write well.

And you combine and balance emotion and logic nicely I think. Keep up the good posting Smile

EvF

Thanks for the kind words. Never fear; I will. Nice board, by the way.


Sorry for asking: but what do you mean by 'board', do you mean these forums are nice? Or my sig? Or what? What is it referring to? Sorry for asking I'm just curious what you mean by board :$

I meant http://www.atheistforums.com. "Message board."
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#34
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
Ah you meant the site. Or 'our' site considering I'm a supermodSmile I'm not an admin so I don't know if supermod is 'high up enough' to act like he partly ownz the site at least; I mean so he can say 'our site'Wink

But yeah; thanks considering I'm part of the 'staff'.

Before I was staff I would have just said it was awesome myself Tongue

Dunno if I should say 'our' of 'the' site really lol. Because I'm not an admin; but I am staff.

Yeah; I first liked these forums when I joined because they run really nicely and I think it's really free and smooth. Easy to use. I just liked it here.

I still like it here of course. But I'm the 'staff' now so I don't know if that would be bragging or not lol?

But I just 'moderate'. Or 'supermoderate' really. Or I will if need be:p

EvF
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#35
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 10:34 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Ah you meant the site. Or 'our' site considering I'm a supermodSmile I'm not an admin so I don't know if supermod is 'high up enough' to act like he partly ownz the site at least; I mean so he can say 'our site'Wink

But yeah; thanks considering I'm part of the 'staff'.

Before I was staff I would have just said it was awesome myself Tongue

Dunno if I should say 'our' of 'the' site really lol. Because I'm not an admin; but I am staff.

Yeah; I first liked these forums when I joined because they run really nicely and I think it's really free and smooth. Easy to use. I just liked it here.

I still like it here of course. But I'm the 'staff' now so I don't know if that would be bragging or not lol?

But I just 'moderate'. Or 'supermoderate' really. Or I will if need be:p

EvF

You know a "Thank you" would have sufficed. Smile
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
Pastafarian
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#36
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
IndeedSmile

But like I said; it's not really my forums. I'm just 'mod' or 'supermod' for the forums (and I love it here).

So I went on a bit about whether I am the one to be saying thanks! I could just as easily say thanks for the forums to Adrian, Darwinan, Ace etc.

I love it hereSmile. Being a mod is just a bonus.
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#37
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Christ = God in any definition I've seen. The two are the same thing. It's a huge surprise to me that you're not aware of that.
Well to me Christ can also mean "Jesus Christ", as in the man. Whether you believe the man was a God or not is down to your outlook, but you can certainly follow the main and not the God. So even if we take your definition as "Christ = God", how then do you reconcile that with your previous statement, which said "If they were followers of Jesus, absolutely. Why not?" in response to my proposition that atheists who followed Jesus could rightly be called Christians.

I say again, you seem to have two conflicting views. One says that atheists who follow Jesus can be called Christians, and the other says that Christians must believe in God...
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#38
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 5:14 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Except for our good friend Mark here, who initiated hostilities after misunderstanding a joke.

Fr0d0, regardless of whatever level of misunderstanding I may or may not have had, I have never directed the slightest hostility toward you. At worst I called you a pill, which would seem to be an appropriate description of someone who says, "Your outlook is twisted. You need to go outside and smell the mustard." If that was your joke, then in light of everything that had gone before it, it was a joke that was most likely to be seen a childish insult. Further I will thank you not to direct childish insults toward me on any basis, including jest.

Actually I discovered that it was on another thread that I called you said I had a twisted outlook, and I replied by calling you a pill. So how you can say that I initiated anything here, I cannot imagine.
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#39
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 11:05 am)leo-rcc Wrote:
(March 5, 2009 at 10:34 am)EvidenceVsFaith Wrote: Ah you meant the site. Or 'our' site considering I'm a supermodSmile I'm not an admin so I don't know if supermod is 'high up enough' to act like he partly ownz the site at least; I mean so he can say 'our site'Wink

But yeah; thanks considering I'm part of the 'staff'.

Before I was staff I would have just said it was awesome myself Tongue

Dunno if I should say 'our' of 'the' site really lol. Because I'm not an admin; but I am staff.

Yeah; I first liked these forums when I joined because they run really nicely and I think it's really free and smooth. Easy to use. I just liked it here.

I still like it here of course. But I'm the 'staff' now so I don't know if that would be bragging or not lol?

But I just 'moderate'. Or 'supermoderate' really. Or I will if need be:p

EvF

You know a "Thank you" would have sufficed. Smile

EvF's sig did used to say: extremely verbose ...erm something! Smile

I thought that was quite fitting! LOL

*winks at EvF*




(March 5, 2009 at 11:25 am)Tiberius Wrote:
(March 4, 2009 at 9:07 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Christ = God in any definition I've seen. The two are the same thing. It's a huge surprise to me that you're not aware of that.
Well to me Christ can also mean "Jesus Christ", as in the man. Whether you believe the man was a God or not is down to your outlook, but you can certainly follow the main and not the God. So even if we take your definition as "Christ = God", how then do you reconcile that with your previous statement, which said "If they were followers of Jesus, absolutely. Why not?" in response to my proposition that atheists who followed Jesus could rightly be called Christians.

I say again, you seem to have two conflicting views. One says that atheists who follow Jesus can be called Christians, and the other says that Christians must believe in God...

No I still disagree with your definition. Smile

Jesus Christ said he was God. Many times. Followers of Christ are not those, like in other faiths, that need to understand him as only a man. Those are not primarily followers of Christ. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

So yes that is a contradiction in terms, atheists who follow Jesus. This label, I presume, would describe someone who agrees with the moral guidelines without accepting the divinity. It's an oxymoron. Like 'Microsoft Works' (my favourite Wink)






(March 5, 2009 at 9:12 am)leo-rcc Wrote: No I meant they were warned in the same way you were warned (PM).
Ah! *eats humble pie* Blush
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#40
RE: I rejoice to be an atheist.
(March 5, 2009 at 9:02 am)fr0d0 Wrote: If you go look at the other thread Kyu you'll see your figures are vastly incorrect.

Firstly, what other thread (you don't really expect me to go round searching for data to back up your claims do you?) and secondly, um no, they aren't; The last UK Census was in 2001 at which point the population of England & Wales was 52,042,000 and the declared number of Christians was 37.3 million. Now, a little basic bath shows you that:

37,300,000
--------------- x 100 = 71.67
52,042,000

So, unless you think the addition of Northern Ireland (extremely Christian) & Scotland (I'd assume much the same) is going to massively drop that percentage I'd like to know how you figure I was wrong given that I was, fairly self-evidently, presenting rounded figures?

(March 5, 2009 at 9:02 am)fr0d0 Wrote: Not completely, but they are a hugely insignificant small number.

If they are "hugely insignificant" they don't even justify your argument at all.

(March 5, 2009 at 9:02 am)fr0d0 Wrote: That's wildly inaccurate. There's no degree about it, you either are or you aren't. Adolf Hitler could have been a Christian. Why couldn't he? Perhaps in some things he was being morally correct. that's the nature of the beast, the line crossing isn't one way, there's no magic panacea.

What's wildly inaccurate? That Hitler was a Christian? No he was quite evidently a Christian (Catholic to be precise).

That you're using the No True Scotsman fallacy? No ... you actually (really, truly & honestly) are.

That the difference between you and, for lack of a better term, "wishy washy" Christians varies only by degree? No ... they do and here's why. Many cults (and I regard all religions as such) profess to be Christian; most (if not all) seem to believe they are in some way chosen above (or more correct than) the others; most (if not all) interpret the Christian bible in ways that differ by some degree (sometimes quite staggeringly); many use versions of bibles that differ from the others sometimes quite significantly. Now reason alone tells us they cannot ALL be the chosen ones, they cannot all be right yet there is no objective way of telling which ones are right and which ones are wrong therefore we have to assume a more generic idea of Christianity, perhaps that if they follow the teachings of Jesus in some way (and we can argue whether they do or don't elsewhere) and believe that Jesus is in some way their saviour they are Christian. If you look at it that way and not from the narrow-minded No True Scotsman POV you seem to be adopting then yes, the only real difference between you (in your vaunted NTS castle) and them is a matter of degree.

Kyu
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