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RE: Potter to the clay
September 6, 2011 at 2:13 pm
(August 29, 2011 at 4:32 pm)searchingforanswers Wrote: In my apologetic class we are reading te book crazy love by francis chan. It sucks ass. But tommorow we are gonna discuss it. Now chan ususes the passage in the bible which says it is absurd for clay to tell the potter how to shape it. He compares this to our relationship with god saying we have no right to question him an he is free to do as he pleases. Now lets just suppose for a minute this god does exist, doea he truly have the right to treat humans as he sees fit? In my opnion i dont think so. Just because human are capable of feeling and thinking-something clay lacks. However, i havent thought about this in depth. So what are your opnions? Would a divine creator have the authority to do whatever he wanted with his creation? Is it absurd for a creation to question their maker? Again im not saying i believe in a creator i just know this discussion will come up and wanted to see the forums opinion. Thanks.
So the premiss here is that 'god' made humans which confers the right to do what it likes with us.
I would say that (in the extremely unlikely event) the creation would only confer responsibility for peoples welfare not rights to control us like some kind of brutal feudal lord. who used to use this argument to justify their evil dominion by claiming appointment by god, (as our queen still does by the way)
http://home.iprimus.com.au/sevenstars/qu...ation.html
Quote:DIVINE APPOINTMENT
The Queen is a divinely appointed representative on the Lord's earthly Throne being a direct descendant of King David. The Davidic Throne has never lacked an heir male or female to occupy the Royal Office signifying God's authority over the Kingdoms of this world. Her calling "Defender of the Faith"- for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. No other world leader has such an awesome responsibility. The honour of having the Queen as our Monarch. 'God Save the Queen'.
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:16 pm
(September 6, 2011 at 2:01 pm)Rhythm Wrote: They aren't my property. You think children are property? They're my children by accident of birth, not by right of ownership. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Your "gotcha" attempts are weak. I belong to myself, and I'm the only one who can "save" or "damn" myself. I take responsibility for my actions, don't imagine an external aggressor, and do things for my own reason and purpose without thought of unearthly rewards. Any evil I have is my own and not part of some demons pyschodrama, and any goodness I've cultivated can be firmly laid upon me without invoking some fairy that imbued me with it. That you believe yourself to be powerless in your own "salvation" is your crutch, not mine. That's what "it comes down to".
What is "my children" supposed to mean?
Truly, i am powerless in my own salvation, no matter what i do or how hard i try, it falls on God's mercy and grace. And i don't see that as a crutch but justifying every action with partiality to one's self seems a little helpful.
Would you want to live forever, you know, if science found away to do that?
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:20 pm
(September 13, 2011 at 1:16 pm)C Rod Wrote: Would you want to live forever, you know, if science found away to do that?
I think living forever would be horrible
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm
(September 13, 2011 at 1:16 pm)C Rod Wrote: Would you want to live forever, you know, if science found away to do that?
You can never live forever as forever is not a goal that can ever be reached. The best you can hope to achieve is to never die which is very different.
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:39 pm
(September 13, 2011 at 1:29 pm)Darwinian Wrote: (September 13, 2011 at 1:16 pm)C Rod Wrote: Would you want to live forever, you know, if science found away to do that?
You can never live forever as forever is not a goal that can ever be reached. The best you can hope to achieve is to never die which is very different.
Could you explain the difference? And would you care to never die?
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:46 pm
The difference can be explained with this analogy.
A counter can never reach infinity but it can keep counting indefinitely. So, you can theoretically keep on living and never reach a point in time where you will die but you can never live forever.
And yes, I would care to never die. If I did not exist I could not appreciate it.
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm
(September 13, 2011 at 1:46 pm)Darwinian Wrote: The difference can be explained with this analogy.
A counter can never reach infinity but it can keep counting indefinitely. So, you can theoretically keep on living and never reach a point in time where you will die but you can never live forever.
And yes, I would care to never die. If I did not exist I could not appreciate it.
Thanks
"Its not what your looking at that matters, its what you see." -Henry David Thoreau
♪Oh, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get Lost in my mind Lost in my Mind Yes, I get lost in my mind Lost, I get lost I get lost I get lost Oh, I get♪ -The Head and the Heart
"You are wise, witty and wonderful, but you spend too much time reading this sort of stuff.”- Frank Crane
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:50 pm
13.7 billion years has already passed.
So a fair chunk of 'forever' has gone by.
What you mean is to live from now on.
And that assumes that the universe just goes on and on which is not as certain as you might think.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_death_of_the_universe
http://io9.com/5460394/universal-heat-de...e-realized
Or does the ghostly realm still go on without a universe?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:53 pm
No chunk of forever has gone by unless forever is finite, which by definition it can't be. :p
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RE: Potter to the clay
September 13, 2011 at 1:58 pm
(September 13, 2011 at 1:53 pm)Darwinian Wrote: No chunk of forever has gone by unless forever is finite, which by definition it can't be. :p
ooh how about forever being the life span of the universe.
That would be finite.
Also in order to have lived forever you needed to have started living at the beginning. 
How are you Dar still got that cold?
You can fix ignorance, you can't fix stupid.
Tinkety Tonk and down with the Nazis.
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