Overpopulation

[Ace Otana]

We use more water than we need to, not by a little, by a lot. Waste.

We use more space than we need to, not by a little, by a lot. Waste.

Even if we were efficient and not at all wasteful, there is still a limit to our numbers. The problem remains.

Yes, it will hit hotter and less advanced countries first, because they are less advanced.......doesn't that sound like a problem we can solve to you?

Can't solve a problem if we're the ones causing the problem in the first place.

It never becomes wrong when a human life is in the balance Ace. Maybe your argument is better phrased as "We cant save the koalas and ourselves at the same time". So fucking what? Plants love the CO2, maybe we should look at sequestering or utilizing all that waste thermal?

Strong disagreement. Why should other species suffer because of us? Why should the environment suffer because of us? Also the Co2, forests does remove it but we're cutting them down. We're shooting ourselves in the foot, less forests means more Co2. Also all the thermal energy being released is just warming things up, making the situation worse. Nature has everything in near perfect balance, we've fucked it up royally, and we will pay for it in the long run. The environment is keeping us alive, it's our life support and we're fucking with it.
I've officially lost all faith in humanity.

[The Grand Nudger]

Near perfect balance is a myth Ace. Earth has no such thing, and never has. That's why we keep having to fuck with it if we want to remain alive. Maybe you feel that the earth would be better off without us? Well, it doesn't even know we're here, and frankly doesn't give a shit, because it can't. Everything that lives has an effect. The oxygen you breathe is pollution that can't bleed out of our atmosphere quickly enough. Maybe all the photosynthetics should stop dumping their toxic waste into the atmosphere (that would solve the human problem pretty quick wouldn't it)?

[Ace Otana]

Near perfect balance is a myth Ace. Earth has no such thing, and never has.

I can only try so hard.

Take care buddy.

[The Grand Nudger]

No worries amigo, if there weren't people looking out for the trees there wouldn't be quite so many. If there weren't people looking out for us there wouldn't be quite so many. Bit of a Janus situation. Takes all kinds.

[Ace Otana]

No worries amigo, if there weren't people looking out for the trees there wouldn't be quite so many. If there weren't people looking out for us there wouldn't be quite so many. Bit of a Janus situation. Takes all kinds.

There are people from many areas. Geologists study the ground and warn of possible earthquakes and volcano instability. Biologists study the biological and warn of possible diseases and work for cures. Naturalists study the wildlife and the environment and warn of extinctions and possible environmental disasters. They all function in the field of science and with huge understanding and experience, should all be given centre stage when they have something important to tell us. That's what I believe.

[The Grand Nudger]

Rgr, and in looking at the problem those scientists have developed ways to deal with some of the problems you've just mentioned that we have not yet put to use. I'm not doubting that earth has a carrying capacity, I'm suggesting that we might want to make sure all our variables are accurate, and that we're doing all we can before we suggest population control. If we just suggests that people give it thought what are the odds that people will actually stop having children, in your estimation?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Why would I actually not have a child? I have every means of taking care of it.
And besides, I think that this is doomsday crap, nothing more.

[Ace Otana]

Rgr, and in looking at the problem those scientists have developed ways to deal with some of the problems you've just mentioned that we have not yet put to use. I'm not doubting that earth has a carrying capacity, I'm suggesting that we might want to make sure all our variables are accurate, and that we're doing all we can before we suggest population control. If we just suggests that people give it thought what are the odds that people will actually stop having children, in your estimation?

I agree that we should look into the problem from every angle. We've had a few hundred years to think and try alternatives. Naturalists as well as many other scientists are hugely concerned. These men and women dedicate their lives and reputation on studying their field and giving accurate data. When they are concerned, so should we be. I don't want there to be a natural disaster. It'll affect me and my family too.
Hundreds of years ago, people were aware of population limitations. All they could do was delay the ever growing problem. Just as we do today.
I can't see how we can encourage people to reconsider having kids. And we can't use force. So what option do we have left? That's what we have to figure out.

[The Grand Nudger]

I mentioned a few options above didn't I. Those from personal experience with the problem and a history of engaging in advocacy and activism for the same. We overproduce food with current (archaic and wasteful) practices, and we can produce many many times more with modern practices, using much less water and much less space. That's a big step towards dealing with three of those problems isn't it? How could we possibly have an accurate number for the carrying capacity of earth until we do that?

[Ace Otana]

I mentioned a few options above didn't I. Those from personal experience with the problem and a history of engaging in advocacy and activism for the same.

Observation, we can see the effects. Many dried up reservoirs for one. Which makes me wonder, how many reservoirs must dry out before we start paying attention. To the point where you can no longer draw water from your taps?
This may sound crazy but I want there to be a huge devastating drought next year. Huge water shortages. In the hopes that people will see and act. This year (I think) hoses were banned. Our reservoirs were extremely low. That to me was a huge wake up call.

We overproduce food with current (archaic and wasteful) practices, and we can produce many many times more with modern practices, using much less water. That's a big step towards dealing with two of those problems isn't it?

That would help but doesn't solve the problem. Just delays it.
Sir David Attenborough is a brilliant naturalist. Been to every country in the world, has first hand experience from countless species and environments. Years of study and experience and he knows what he's talking about.
He explains in detail the problem far better than I can.

---

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fK0rXRmC4DQ

---