American Myths

[thesummerqueen]

I'm sure we could add to this list:

http://youmademesayit.com/2011/11/02/american-myths/

Mr. Patterson refers to myths, however what he’s using to base his opinions on lack just as much credibility:
• The US constitution is not based on any religious texts and is in fact in direct opposition to many tenets of major religions including Christianity.
• Religious morals historically reflect societal morals and change accordingly over time. No better example than Christianity. Compare the morality it preached 200, 100 or even 50 years ago with that of today. Of course you could go back further, say Inquisition, Crusades, etc.
• The words “separation of church and state” do not literally appear in the constitution, but the concept clearly does. Other things not literally in the original constitution but still addressed by it would include slavery, the Electoral College, Executive Orders, “freedom of expressions”, absolute freedom of speech, and more.
• Stalin’s behavior in general was not motivated by atheism, and his actions specifically against the church were in response to the church fomenting counter-revolution to regain the opulent place of privilege it had under the Czars.
• Likewise, Hitler self-described as a Christian and much of his anti-semetic language echoed Martin Luther’s and Calvin’s.
• The US is a secular nation, not part of “Christendom”.
• The use of “Creator” in the Declaration was in response to the prevailing rationale for monarchies at the time, divine right. As revered a document as it is, it’s no more a founding document of the United States than Paine’s Common Sense.
• In democracies and republics, rights are decided by societies and made into laws. Cases in point would be women’s suffrage and abolition of slavery, both decidedly NOT from the Christian bible.

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I'd almost like to compile a list of stupid shit fundies (in particular) say about this country and make it a necessary textbook for kids to learn the reality - just so they realize how people twist things to suit their agendas.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Fundie Founding Fathers" is the current favorite up here ( I get the sermons secondhand..lol)

[kılıç_mehmet]

Well, I'm not sure that the founding fathers were that liberal in the sense it prevails in America today.
However, they probably enacted laws and regulations that could be considered modern for the time being.

[Minimalist]

I always love to throw this one in the face of theist shitheads.

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.

-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

[5thHorseman]

'Well, I'm not sure that the founding fathers were that liberal in the sense it prevails in America today.
However, they probably enacted laws and regulations that could be considered modern for the time being.'

Its historical context Mehmet, in their day they may have been very liberal. I'd say, if anything they were progressive's.

[thesummerqueen]

Mehmet -

The difference now is that few people in America know what it is like to come from a country where religious freedom isn't a truth. Nowadays, people take it for granted that they won't be slain for being a Catholic in a Protestant nation or vice-versa.

When the US was formed, it wasn't far off from political and religious turmoil sweeping across Britain and Europe. Whatever the founding fathers believed or didn't believe, they knew for damn sure they didn't want one religious group having precedence over another. To state that it was a Christian nation would have meant then to further concede to being a Baptist or a Methodist or a Presbyterian or Episcopalian or Quaker nation - or any number of weirdo sects cropping up at the time. Who makes that decision? Better to keep the nation secular and your religion "private."

[Minimalist]

The American Okie-Doke

[Doubting Thomas]

What's scary is how so many of these Christian nationalists believe things like, "The Establishment Clause only means that Congress can't pass a law favoring one denomination of Christianity over another," "The First Amendment only says that the government can't control churches, but doesn't say that churches can't have a say in government" or "The Founding Fathers were Christians, so freedom of religion shouldn't apply to Muslims." Actually, Herman Cain is guilty of saying something similar to the last one, claiming that Muslims shouldn't be protected under the First Amendment.

[frankiej]

Does anyone think that we should fund a film called "Mehmet in America"?

I'm pretty sure it would be hilarious.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Does anyone think that we should fund a film called "Mehmet in America"?

I'm pretty sure it would be hilarious.

It'd be much more serious than Borat, I assure you.