Subsequent truths

[The Grand Nudger]

So christian denominations have their own personal fan fiction, why not? The original book was fantasy, and as such all the rest follow suite. Do you have anything to add other than "those guys are wrong"?

[Godscreated]

As a Christian, I am constantly amazed by how often I am told I am not a true believer BY OTHER CHRISTIANS!!!

Now, just historically, the Roman Catholic Church is probably the oldest Christian denomination there is and is the largest. It also holds scriptures in original languages and relies on the older texts to form its doctrines. You would therefore assume that it is closest to the church set up by Jesus. Right? Well not according to some. Many YEC's rely on 20th century translations of the Bible that have slightly differing translations and are annotated in such a ways as to guide away from traditional interpretation.

Where does it state in the original Greek text of Genesis that the 6 days of creation were distinct 24 hour periods? It doesn't. Yet, this is a fundament to many Christian groups. It does saay in the Bible how hard you can beat your slaves, but ask any Republican candidate if they believe wholeheartedly in the Bible they all say "Yes, I am a committed Christian". Really?

Why are there so many Christian churches now? Who gave the religious authority to create them all and more importantly, why do they feel they have the right to decry all other denominations as "not true Christians".

And please, don't resort to only being rude about Christians, even though some of us clearly deserve a smack in the face with a reality hammer. Please answer on the psychology of religion too.

Chad I hate to tell you this but the Catholic Church does not hold a monopoly on christianity. I know several Catholics and have no doubt they are saved, they most certainly do not talk the way you have so far. My wife's family is Catholic and there are several of them and most believe they are saved, if they are then I have salvation all wrong. Do you truly believe that other denominations do not have access to the original languages, I have one book that is Hebrew and Greek and refers to every word in scriptures. The NAS is one of the best and most literal of the translations from Hebrew and Greek, not Latin not that I'm aware of. God ordained that the scripture be put into the common languages and from this came the different protestant denominations. Though this may not relate to a 24 hour day scripture says "and there was evening and there was morning the 1st, 2d, 3rd and ect. day". This to me is a description of a 24 hour day, especially when a lunar calender is being used. No one denomination has it right but we each try our best, well except those who blatantly misuse the scriptures. Now I'm not saying that you are not a christian, I do however see signs to make me pause and think.

[fr0d0]

I agree with Godschild. The 24 hour day is actually literally indicated. Age day theory is as weak as YEC.

[chadster1976]

Godschild: My point was not that the Catholic Church has a monopoly on Christianity. My point was that it is somewhat ridiculous that someone from a sect set up by their grandad can state that "Catholics are not Christians" and back it up with a Good News Bible quote! Nobody has a monopoly on God. In fact the Hindu approach to God is that as different people use different languages around the world, so different religions are different ways of talking to the same God; there are many paths to God. A slightly more mature approach than "If you ain't my type of Christian, you ain't a Christian!"
I know which path feels right for me but I will not criticize others for choosing their path, unless they choose to denigrate, belittle or persecute others for their choices.

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Genesis 1:16-19 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in firmament of the heaven to give light upon the Earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

You can't talk about lunar months or solar days before God has even created the sun and the moon. Therefore you cannot ascribe our time frame to that by which God is working. Nowhere does it say how long the day was. The 24 hour day is comprehensively NOT defined in Genesis. (I am deliberately ignoring the lack of scientific insight that leads to a seperation between the sun and stars, or that the "heavenly bodies" are fixed in the firmament.)

Genesis, like most of the Bible, should be taken as an allegorical tale depicting roughly the order in which God created the universe through his various methods. To me, His methods are the complex physics that occured around the Big Bang, creating matter and anti-matter. They include the process of evolution which has populated this planet with incredible diversity and may well have done the same on other planets. Our depiction of God should not be limited to what our forefathers could have imagined was possible when they were writing the texts that were eventually brought together in the Bible.

If I could teach my children one thing about the Bible, it is this:
People are not perfect and the Bible was compiled by people. The Bible is not perfect. Read it, learn it, but always trust in your common sense and be guided by what you feel is right. Do not let an imperfect collection of teachings become your sole doctrine for life.

[ib.me.ub]

Now, just historically, the Roman Catholic Church is probably the oldest Christian denomination there is and is the largest. It also holds scriptures in original languages and relies on the older texts to form its doctrines. You would therefore assume that it is closest to the church set up by Jesus.

umm, nah.

[chadster1976]

Ok. It is the Church of St Paul. It was set up by a saint, not Grandpa Billy-Bob in Virginia. Now, if you believe in such things, wouldn't that give one more authority than the other?

Anyways, I am not saying who is and isn't a Christian. I'm just saying I get annoyed when I get told I'm not one and I don't understand the logic.

[KichigaiNeko]

What's a "saint"?

The only one I know is very old?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Moore

[fr0d0]

The 24 hour day is comprehensively NOT defined in Genesis.

I'm afraid there is zero evidence to suggest anything else. The use of the original text is quite clear.

an imperfect collection of teachings

Currently holding out as wholly correct. I don't pretend that it is actually inerrant, but it has yet to be proved errant. If you hold to this idea then the whole thing cannot make sense to you.

You didn't answer my question - are you a deist as you first said, or a Christian as you said second.

[The Grand Nudger]

Scientology has yet to be proved errant as well.

You realize that you're losing your shit right? You sound more like Statler every day. "It hasn't been proven to be untrue!", well, even if we set aside the fact that the errancy of the bible has been demonstrated over and over again, that's not exactly a strong argument.

Kudos to you Chad, proof positive that one can be a christian without the need for the bible narrative to be wholly accurate, or innerrant. If there's a god I'm sure he appreciates the confidence. On the other hand, why imagine that St. Paul wasn't a Billy Bob?

[Godscreated]

Godschild: My point was not that the Catholic Church has a monopoly on Christianity. My point was that it is somewhat ridiculous that someone from a sect set up by their grandad can state that "Catholics are not Christians" and back it up with a Good News Bible quote! Nobody has a monopoly on God. In fact the Hindu approach to God is that as different people use different languages around the world, so different religions are different ways of talking to the same God; there are many paths to God. A slightly more mature approach than "If you ain't my type of Christian, you ain't a Christian!"
I know which path feels right for me but I will not criticize others for choosing their path, unless they choose to denigrate, belittle or persecute others for their choices.

Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day."

Genesis 1:16-19 "And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in firmament of the heaven to give light upon the Earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."

You can't talk about lunar months or solar days before God has even created the sun and the moon. Therefore you cannot ascribe our time frame to that by which God is working. Nowhere does it say how long the day was. The 24 hour day is comprehensively NOT defined in Genesis. (I am deliberately ignoring the lack of scientific insight that leads to a seperation between the sun and stars, or that the "heavenly bodies" are fixed in the firmament.)

Genesis, like most of the Bible, should be taken as an allegorical tale depicting roughly the order in which God created the universe through his various methods. To me, His methods are the complex physics that occured around the Big Bang, creating matter and anti-matter. They include the process of evolution which has populated this planet with incredible diversity and may well have done the same on other planets. Our depiction of God should not be limited to what our forefathers could have imagined was possible when they were writing the texts that were eventually brought together in the Bible.

If I could teach my children one thing about the Bible, it is this:
People are not perfect and the Bible was compiled by people. The Bible is not perfect. Read it, learn it, but always trust in your common sense and be guided by what you feel is right. Do not let an imperfect collection of teachings become your sole doctrine for life.

You must be a deist, Christ himself said that there is only one way to the Father and that's through Him. If you can not trust in what Christ said then why do you trust Him, are you using a belief as an insurance policy, it will not work, Christ said so. You talk about others changing what the scriptures say, yet you tear them apart and say not to trust in them, it's for sure that you are going against Catholic doctrine.
You are correct in say the scriptures do not expressly say the days where 24 hours, but the verses you have given imply that they were. Just because the moon and sun where not created the first day does not mean it was not rotating in a 24 hour cycle. Why would each day of creation be called a day if were a week, month, year ect. You say that the Roman Catholic church has and use the original languages of scripture, then study them and you will see that the original language meant an actual 24 hour day. The word day through out scripture always means a 24 hour day unless it is used to say, "as in the day of David" for example to indicate a longer period of time but not any longer than the life of a person or definitely defined period of time, scripture is very consistent in this. Why would you have your children read a book that you yourself do not trust, one that you can not tell what is real or not, one in which you do not know what is truth and what is not. You really make no sense to me.