Posts: 368
Threads: 39
Joined: April 16, 2009
Reputation:
0
Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 1:43 am
Why is the word 'belief' generally associated with religion.
Can you not believe in the physical properties of the Universe, therefore having a 'belief' that is not associated.
Why do we attach dogma to certain words and there meanings.
This question has interested me lately, has anyone a thought?
Posts: 178
Threads: 14
Joined: August 27, 2008
Reputation:
1
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 4:32 am
I think it is because belief (rightly or wrongly) is linked to the word faith. When someone says they belive something then it suggests that they are not 100% sure (or they would have said they KNOW something). This would mean that they have faith that their conclusion is right, despite not having 100% certinty. As faith is wrongly labeled as firmly in the domain of religion, scientific theories etc seem to avoid the word 'belief' because others would see some kind of link with blind faith or religion, which people wish to avoid for whatever reason.
Posts: 2721
Threads: 99
Joined: October 8, 2008
Reputation:
17
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 7:21 am
(April 19, 2009 at 4:32 am)dagda Wrote: I think it is because belief (rightly or wrongly) is linked to the word faith. When someone says they belive something then it suggests that they are not 100% sure (or they would have said they KNOW something). This would mean that they have faith that their conclusion is right, despite not having 100% certinty. As faith is wrongly labeled as firmly in the domain of religion, scientific theories etc seem to avoid the word 'belief' because others would see some kind of link with blind faith or religion, which people wish to avoid for whatever reason.
Though I see where you are coming from (the beginning bit at least) I don't entirely agree, someone once said to me that both religions and science are basically beliefs (involve faith) but that the core faith in science is based on evidence whereas that of religion is not. I'm not saying that to be contentious more to show it as an interesting take on the idea especially since it must be obvious to anyone that I DO have faith in science, in the scientific method but (IMO) with good reason.
Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Posts: 628
Threads: 13
Joined: December 1, 2008
Reputation:
13
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 9:27 am
I think the difference Kyu, between faith in science and faith in religion is that we don't have faith in science. We have hard-earned trust. We don't believe scientific theories and the potential for science without evidence, we trust that science is and will continue to be correct due to it incredible track record. The verifiable accomplishments of science are evidence for its excellence. God on the other hand...
Posts: 2721
Threads: 99
Joined: October 8, 2008
Reputation:
17
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 11:24 am
(April 19, 2009 at 9:27 am)LukeMC Wrote: I think the difference Kyu, between faith in science and faith in religion is that we don't have faith in science. We have hard-earned trust. We don't believe scientific theories and the potential for science without evidence, we trust that science is and will continue to be correct due to it incredible track record. The verifiable accomplishments of science are evidence for its excellence. God on the other hand...
Faith? Trust? I don't see the difference really ... but then the faith I have in science (faith with reason) isn't the same vaporous kind that religionists have in their varied gods (faith without reason).
Kyu
Angry Atheism
Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator
Posts: 14932
Threads: 684
Joined: August 25, 2008
Reputation:
143
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 12:38 pm
Faith in God is reasoned with logic.
Faith in science is reasoned with evidence.
Of the two, evidence is the far superior since it exists in a material sense. Logic is a human attribute and doesn't describe what is right or wrong, merely what makes sense and what doesn't. Arguing for a God through logic is the ultimate appeal to ignorance, because what it really says is "A universe without a God makes no logical sense to me, therefore I believe in a God". If anything, science has shown us the universe can often be highly illogical 
Posts: 628
Threads: 13
Joined: December 1, 2008
Reputation:
13
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 2:00 pm
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2009 at 2:01 pm by LukeMC.)
(April 19, 2009 at 11:24 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: Faith? Trust? I don't see the difference really ... but then the faith I have in science (faith with reason) isn't the same vaporous kind that religionists have in their varied gods (faith without reason).
Kyu
Well what I'm saying is basically the same as you. I don't think we have "faith" because this would require a belief with no evidence to support it. The achievements of science stand as evidence to believe it reliable, so accepting science couldn't be considered faith as it isn't without evidence. Perhaps trust wasn't the right word. I can't think of a synonym which encorporates evidence. Faith certainly isn't the word. How about conviction?
Conviction: The state of being convinced
Convinced: To have been moved towards belief by argument/evidence.
Fits a little better but it still isn't quite right. Funny how the nonsenical ideals such as "faith" and "trust" get their own word.
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 3:21 pm
(April 19, 2009 at 12:38 pm)Tiberius Wrote: Faith in God is reasoned with logic.
Faith in science is reasoned with evidence.
Of the two, evidence is the far superior since it exists in a material sense. Logic is a human attribute and doesn't describe what is right or wrong, merely what makes sense and what doesn't. Arguing for a God through logic is the ultimate appeal to ignorance, because what it really says is "A universe without a God makes no logical sense to me, therefore I believe in a God". If anything, science has shown us the universe can often be highly illogical
I think you dismiss theists unfairly Adrian. I don't need God to make sense of the universe. I find that idea ridiculous. Why shouldn't science suffice for scientific matters? But then of course you're using mono thinking: you think that scientific reasoning is all there is. Religion of course doesn't deal with scientific truths, but spiritual truths instead.
Using logic, you cannot believe that God exists. Only with faith, can you believe that God exists.
Posts: 628
Threads: 13
Joined: December 1, 2008
Reputation:
13
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 3:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 19, 2009 at 3:35 pm by LukeMC.)
(April 19, 2009 at 3:21 pm)fr0d0 Wrote: Using logic, you cannot believe that God exists. Only with faith, can you believe that God exists.
lol...
Doesn't that make you feel like you're in a really weak position to defend?
Posts: 14259
Threads: 48
Joined: March 1, 2009
Reputation:
80
RE: Believe:
April 19, 2009 at 3:54 pm
Well yeah LOL 
|
