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RE: Believe:
April 20, 2009 at 4:41 am
Belief can be based on evidence or without evidence...
When NOT based on evidence, the belief is also faith (or faith-based).
When the belief IS based on evidence then it's still a belief, but not faith - it's not a religious belief, it's not faith based (it's evidence-based).
That's what I think and how I'd put it anyway.
Faith is belief in the absence of evidence.
So belief is not necessarily faith-based or religious - if there's evidence then it's not faith based (or religious I assume thus far, since I don't know of any evidence for religion, if I did I'd 'subscribe').
EvF
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RE: Believe:
April 20, 2009 at 6:32 am
ok. Can I believe in the evidence?
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RE: Believe:
April 20, 2009 at 7:07 am
(April 20, 2009 at 6:32 am)g-mark Wrote: ok. Can I believe in the evidence?
Sure, but you don't have to put faith in it.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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RE: Believe:
April 20, 2009 at 7:48 am
Yeah, to have faith in evidence seems kind of oxymoronic (or at least pointless and has no real meaning) for me.
Faith in the evidence, what's that then...?: To have belief in evidence in the absence of evidence? To believe in evidence without evidence to do so?
You don't need evidence to believe in evidence other than that evidence itself lol. So you don't need faith to believe in evidence.
EvF
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RE: Believe:
April 20, 2009 at 8:34 am
I think this is just a bit of wordplay. We need a definition.
Quote:belief - any cognitive content held as true
source: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=belief
If we take the above definition as true, then every single thing that we understand and recognize as true, is counted as a belief. So everyone is a believer in something, but being a believer does not mean you have faith.
IE: Every 'faith' is a belief but not every 'belief' is a faith.
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RE: Believe:
April 22, 2009 at 4:02 am
Interesting.
Can we take this defination of 'faith' to be sufficient?
faith
/feɪθ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [feyth] Show IPA
–noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3. belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4. belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5. a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6. the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7. the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8. Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
—Idiom
9. in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.
Origin:
1200–50; ME feith < AF fed, OF feid, feit < L fidem, acc. of fidēs trust, akin to fīdere to trust. See confide
faith (fāth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
If so, can we assume that it means many different things depending on the context?
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RE: Believe:
April 22, 2009 at 4:23 am
Belife or believing (I write this without reading the other posts) isn't that something you do when are not sure what the outcome will be or sure what the truth is?
Like in sports, you believe that your team can win. But you can't be 100% sure, that why you believe that they can win and not that they WILL win.
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RE: Believe:
April 22, 2009 at 4:32 am
(April 22, 2009 at 4:02 am)g-mark Wrote: Can we take this defination of 'faith' to be sufficient?
That's several definitions ... what's clear to me is that faith is what we all have, I have faith in science (with reason because it works), I have faith in my friends (with reason because they've been there for me), I have no faith in deity (because there is no reason to believe any of the current claims to such).
Yes, I have faith but it is not in any way the same kind of faith as those who faith in the absence of (and often in spite of the) evidence.
Kyu
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RE: Believe:
April 22, 2009 at 5:27 am
Yes, I have faith but it is not in any way the same kind of faith as those who faith in the absence of (and often in spite of the) evidence.
Nice. I like this.
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RE: Believe:
April 22, 2009 at 6:15 am
(April 22, 2009 at 5:27 am)g-mark Wrote: Nice. I like this.
It's a slight rehash of a Dawkins quote.
Kyu
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