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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 16, 2011 at 7:03 pm
(This post was last modified: December 16, 2011 at 7:11 pm by elly.)
It could be that your relative did not ignore the doubts, it could be that he saw his doubts as not worthy of worry anymore.
I don't think it was that his doubts were not "worthy of worry" anymore. It's far more likely that he read a bunch of one sided, inaccurate quips and it pacified him, because it told him exactly what he wanted to hear.
(December 16, 2011 at 7:03 pm)elly Wrote: It could be that your relative did not ignore the doubts, it could be that he saw his doubts as not worthy of worry anymore.
I don't think it was that his doubts were not "worthy of worry" anymore. It's far more likely that he read a bunch of one sided, inaccurate quips and it pacified him, because it told him exactly what he wanted to hear. Okay, what I just wrote sounded like I was agreeing with you. To clarify: I think there is a big difference in someone keeping their faith because it feels right to them, and someone keeping their faith because they read inaccurate books like Strobel's, and assume that they are getting a true and accurate account of the presence of a divine, Christian god.
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 1:19 am
(December 16, 2011 at 7:03 pm)elly Wrote: It could be that your relative did not ignore the doubts, it could be that he saw his doubts as not worthy of worry anymore.
I don't think it was that his doubts were not "worthy of worry" anymore. It's far more likely that he read a bunch of one sided, inaccurate quips and it pacified him, because it told him exactly what he wanted to hear.
(December 16, 2011 at 7:03 pm)elly Wrote: It could be that your relative did not ignore the doubts, it could be that he saw his doubts as not worthy of worry anymore.
I don't think it was that his doubts were not "worthy of worry" anymore. It's far more likely that he read a bunch of one sided, inaccurate quips and it pacified him, because it told him exactly what he wanted to hear. Okay, what I just wrote sounded like I was agreeing with you. To clarify: I think there is a big difference in someone keeping their faith because it feels right to them, and someone keeping their faith because they read inaccurate books like Strobel's, and assume that they are getting a true and accurate account of the presence of a divine, Christian god.
Did you ask him/her why the book gave new resolve? I've read Lee's first two books and find them to be accurate with scriptures. I haven't read his third book yet and not sure I will, I've read many books on creation and at this point do not believe any new info has come to light.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 2:25 am
(This post was last modified: December 17, 2011 at 2:28 am by The Grand Nudger.)
"Accurate with scriptures"..yet another title that should generate shame..lol. Just how many creation fairy tales have you read? Why would you assume that any new information would come to light? No information came to light in the creation narrative in the first place. Stories, fanciful tales, sure. Information, not even close.
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 2:27 am
Quote:find them to be accurate with scriptures.
But as Ehrman has shown your scriptures aren't even accurate with themselves.
That's what all those errors means!
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 7:33 am
(December 17, 2011 at 2:27 am)Minimalist Wrote: Quote:find them to be accurate with scriptures.
But as Ehrman has shown your scriptures aren't even accurate with themselves.
That's what all those errors means!
Ehrman is a godless nit, I would not expect him to understand, hey that even describes you.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 9:44 am
(December 17, 2011 at 7:33 am)Godschild Wrote: Ehrman is a godless nit, I would not expect him to understand, hey that even describes you.
He wasn't until he studied the scriptures. Hey, that even describes most ex-Christian atheists.
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 2:45 pm
Why should it make any difference whether Ehrman or any other scholar of scripture is a believer or not? Doesn't the holy word stand on its own merit? Isn't the truth still the truth no matter what a person believes?
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 5:19 pm
When I was a Fundamentalist Christian I purchased both "The Case for Faith" and "The Case for Christ". I thought it would be fun. I thought it would help me answer those nagging questions I had always had about Christianity. I was sourly disappointed. His book was just a collection of flimsy arguments that any jr high school student could pick apart. I expected better of him because he, supposedly, was one of the best apologists that the Christian faith had. I read the book sincerely hoping to find solid arguments and real facts. I got neither. The dissapointment was pretty awful.
Strobel and people like him pushed me towards atheism because their inability to debate or provide solid fact led me to seek these things out myself.
In defense of the fundies though, consider that most of them don't know of the existence of any other information that could disprove the Bible and god. Christianity is a closed system. Lee Strobel's books are on the tacitly approved list of books, other books aren't even mentioned. One has to look in places where one would not ordinarily look to find information. Real books that disprove the Bible are almost never mentioned. It's hard to search for a title that you don't even know exists. I had no idea that "The Bible Unearthed" existed until someone on this forum suggested it (I recently bought the book BTW.) On the other hand, I did know about and do possess several books that "prove" the biblical stories.
Also consider availability of books that disprove the Bible. I recently did a library search on atheist books (electronic Kindle edition) in my counties library. Note that my county contains the 4th largest city in the United States (Houston). I found book after book on several different topics on Christianity but no, not one, Richard Dawkins book. I did find a few Hitchens books. I'm thinking about a campaign in my area to flood the county library system with Atheist books.
My point is that there is a serious disproportion even in the public library between available Christian books and available atheist books. This could lead one to believe that not only do atheist books not exist, but also (if they did indeed manage to come across an atheist book) that their argument might not be as valid as that of Christians because there is so little information.
I have studied the Bible and the theology behind Christianity for many years. I have been to many churches. I have walked the depth and the breadth of the religion and, as a result of this, I have a lot of bullshit to scrape off the bottom of my shoes. ~Ziploc Surprise
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 5:55 pm
(December 17, 2011 at 2:45 pm)Stimbo Wrote: Why should it make any difference whether Ehrman or any other scholar of scripture is a believer or not? Doesn't the holy word stand on its own merit? Isn't the truth still the truth no matter what a person believes?
Well, by golly, it should be if it's one of those objective, eternal thingies that theists keep going on about.
Perhaps it's that G-C thinks that us "godless nits" are incapable of observing objective, eternal truth?
What rational explanation might account for that?
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RE: Lee Strobel?
December 17, 2011 at 6:29 pm
Quote:Ehrman is a godless nit
You grovel on your knees to some farcical apparition of a 'god' and have the nerve to call Ehrman a "nit?" Remember he was one of you until he wised up and realized what a con job your fucking religion is.
I have no hope for you ever wising up. You'll be an idiot to the very end.
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