RE: Dear Resident Theists
August 20, 2015 at 4:57 am
(This post was last modified: August 20, 2015 at 5:09 am by Longhorn.)
(August 19, 2015 at 9:17 am)lkingpinl Wrote: here's where we have a disconnect. I don't believe that. We are coming from two different presuppositions that invariably rule out the other persons conclusions.
Right. Forgot who I was speaking to for a moment....
Quote:My point here is I believe the universe to be fine tuned to immense precision to support life only on this planet. I don't believe there is life anywhere else.
First off, I recall you mentioning mathematical improbability. By the sheer number of planets, it's reasonable to assume there is at least one with conditions similar enough to those of Earth that life can exist....But I guess that's beside the point anyway.
The fine tuning argument is actually an argument against intelligent design. To shamelessly steal this very adequate analogy from Uncle K, nobody builds a house on a cliff on purpose.
Quote: Complexity is emergent, yes, but ordered purposeful complexity is a result of intelligence. We see this everyday. I still do not accept that computers refute my assertion. If a computer were to spring in to existence out of chemical reactions and start writing it's own complex programs, that would be something different, but the complexity that emerges from a computer requires the input of a mind.
I guess we'll just have to leave it at that, as I don't know enough in the subject to argue.
Quote:As for why it's not possible for the creation to be a mindless, unguided process, is because this universe is intelligible and is ordered. We have testable laws of physics that the universe is restrained to. If the universe was started by a mindless unguided process, why should we trust our own intelligence? Each person is not making their own observations and laws about the universe there are objective laws in place that are empirically verifiable. That screams intelligence. An example of a mindless unguided process would be an explosion, the result is chaos. But we have order and extremely precise order at that.
I really don't see the connection. It sounds like an argument from personal incredulity to be honest, that because we can make some sense of it it is difficult to believe it was set up by chance. We're pattern spotting animals. This is kind of like seeing a face on toast or a tree. Agree to disagree I guess.
I think we've reached deadlock at this point, so maybe let's skip to the next point, why do you think this deity takes interest in humans, and why do you think this deity is Yahweh?