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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 4:47 pm
Thanks for the responses all,
@Rhythm: No, because book clubs and hobby workshops don’t create a sense of shared life purpose, not to mention the fact it has nothing to do with secularist viewpoints. A Christian can join a book club, an atheist can join a book club. A book club (or any other sort of hobby group) isn’t an alternative to religion.
People don't join religion just for the sense of awe. Like you implied, everyone can experience awe. It's the combination of awe, community, and shared purpose that attracts people to religion.
Why the talk about sinners and a desire for redemption? It’s irrelevant to the subject.
@ Epimethean: 
@Insanity X: 
Your first point is right- most atheists are too independent to want to join anything with a church-like structure. But it would be hard to argue that there aren't any agnostics and atheists who do desire a such a structure, albeit without the dogma and hierarchy.
Can you explain your second point further? I do not think an individual's desire for community or shared purpose were instilled by their religion in order to give the religion power. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have children of secularists or atheists joining religions.
@ leo-rcc: But that’s the problem- as we can see, works for you often doesn’t work for other people.
@Welsh cake: Yes! I would love to see people start thinking for themselves, which is why I pose this question. If emotional connection is the only thing holding people back from pondering and accepting reality, why haven’t we provided an alternative source of emotional connection which allows questioning and embraces reality?
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 4:54 pm
(February 25, 2012 at 4:47 pm)Hypatia Wrote: @Rhythm: No, because book clubs and hobby workshops don’t create a sense of shared life purpose, not to mention the fact it has nothing to do with secularist viewpoints. A Christian can join a book club, an atheist can join a book club. A book club (or any other sort of hobby group) isn’t an alternative to religion.
Well, I find purpose and meaning for my life in my hobbies and the things I read (among many other things). I agree, these things aren't limited to the secular. Why would they be? I find purpose in things entirely unrelated to gods or religions (and I bet many religious people do exactly the same). Why would I need an alternative to something that I don't require or wish for in the first place?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 4:59 pm
(February 25, 2012 at 4:47 pm)Hypatia Wrote: @Insanity X:
Can you explain your second point further? I do not think an individual's desire for community or shared purpose were instilled by their religion in order to give the religion power. If that were the case, then we wouldn't have children of secularists or atheists joining religions.
Well the way i see it is that religion offers a purpose that isn't there. They offer a solution that isn't necessary if you just deal with the truth (in my opinion) that there is no purpose.
Its true people do like to search out purpose. But that doesn't mean there are any or that you should make them up.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 5:41 pm
@Rhythm: Yes, people of all walks of life find purpose in hobbies or the media they consume. However, at the end of the day, the type of purpose those activities provide isn't enough for many people.
Regarding you not needing an alternative to something you don't desire in the first place, I would say most atheists do not desire religion. However, they may desire the non-religious things which religion offers in one package.
@ Insanity X: I agree in the sense that I believe life has no inherent purpose. However, I do follow the existentialist belief that we may make our own purpose for life. Does that make the purpose one creates some sort of "truth" that is applicable to all? Of course not. When I think alternative to religion I'm thinking of the formation of an arbitrary purpose or set of goals that people can choose to follow with others. To create a purpose for oneself doesn't mean one doesn't realize that life is innately meaningless.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 5:43 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2012 at 5:45 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Then they should join a church. They don't have to believe to get all of those benefits do they?
(to be clear, I don't think religion offers any benefits. It offers many things, sure, but the whole thing is a house of glass. I can't get any benefits out of that, personally.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 6:31 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2012 at 6:37 pm by Oldandeasilyconfused.)
Quote:The reason people stick with religion is because it fulfills an emotional need
Not quite. Emotional need is one reason,and there are several.
Religion exists because it has many functions for those who use it. Eg from assuaging the fear of death to a powerful tool of social control and political power. It is no accident that most (not all) political leaders align themselves with the dominant religion.This alignment may be tokenism,or mutually reinforcing in a corrupt way,such as in the US and Muslim countries..
Quote: People don't join religion just for the sense of awe
Really? You know that for a fact exactly how?
Quote: I would say most atheists do not desire religion.
Who knows and so what? Such a desire or lack of it has nothing to do with atheism,which is only a lack of belief in Gods AND NOTHING ELSE.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 6:34 pm
I am an independent person, I most enjoy company whilst copulating. Solo copulation isn't as fun, although your guarenteed to do the fucking job right.
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Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 6:57 pm
You sound a lot like someone who posted something very similar a few days ago, hmmm.
![[Image: mybannerglitter06eee094.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i118.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fo112%2Fpussinboots_photos%2FBikes%2Fmybannerglitter06eee094.gif)
If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 7:01 pm
(YODA VOICE) hmmm, suspicious you are, Zen. Mindful of newbie, your are.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 7:15 pm
@ Rhythm: No, joining a church wouldn't have the same benefits because an atheist doesn't share the same purpose of a believer.
@Padraic: I agree, there are many reasons for religion. However, the average person adhering to a religion does not use it as a tool of social control or political power, it's primarily used to fulfill an emotional and social need.
As for leaders aligning themselves with a religion for purposes of social control or political power, that's irrelevant. I'm discussing the alternatives to religion for people who may desire or feel the need for it. Unless you're mentioning it because you think it could be an issue with a secular alternative, in which I'm interested and would like your thoughts.
I know people don't join religion just for a sense of awe because I research. It's not a fact, it's just what typically happens. Go ask some converts to a religion why they joined. See how many of them say it was just for the "awe factor."
In the words of PZ Myers, you're a dictionary atheist. While you may not like it, many atheists, besides sharing a lack of belief in any sort of deity, share the same values, values which made them atheists in the first place. A value for truth, honesty, human rights. Also, out of curiosity, why did you decide to pick out that point?
@ 5th Horseman: 
Yes, I agree with your statement, both in the literal and metaphorical stance. But many people are willing to give up the "perfect situation" for something that connects with others. Going it solo may feel good, but you don't get to enjoy all the fun that comes with doing it with a partner (or group) There are pros and cons to each 
@Zen Badger: No, I'm new to the forums, though if someone posted something similar it may reinforce my point. No troll 
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