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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 7:36 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2012 at 7:37 pm by NoMoreFaith.)
Whether it holds us back or not is irrelevant.
Once you declare a set of values to being an atheist, declarations of values or communities simply make it cultish and susceptible to schism until it gives true meaning to the theist idea that atheism is a belief system subject to equivalent criticism.
While not directly critical of your point, and while secular organisations exist, they are primarily lobbyist type organisations.
When you start groups, like Camp Quest, (Camps to encourage skeptical thinking in children). I do not blame theists for being declaring it brainwashing of children and that to some extent does more harm than good imo and hardens resolve against atheism as a whole.
In short; once you declare an atheist organisation as an alternative to religion, and fulfilling emotional needs, you are promoting a subjective opinion which weakens the foundation of objective empricism that Atheism stands for.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 7:53 pm
@ NoMoreFaith
The idea is not to create an “atheist organization,” the idea is to create an organization which atheists can join and gain purpose from. Subtle difference.
Let me give an example I have, so people can have an idea what I view as an alternative to religion:
An organization (doesn’t have to be formal, can just be a group of like-minded people) who join together weekly to discuss science, philosophy, politics (anything concerning humanity), listen to people give their thoughts on issues, and have a shared purpose in helping humanity in a certain way (be it in the realm of science, education, conservation, whatever) which they work on together.
Obviously that is just one example of what could be an alternative to religion. Could it be used for nefarious means? Sure, but so can every other organization. Is it an atheist organization? Yes, in the fact its members don’t believe in God, no, in the fact that belief is not central to the organization.
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 7:57 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2012 at 7:57 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Such organizations already exist, in spades. If you can't find one you aren't looking.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 8:01 pm
(February 25, 2012 at 7:53 pm)Hypatia Wrote: Could it be used for nefarious means? Sure, but so can every other organization.
My point was that regardless of its true nature, it is open to being accused of being used for nefarious means.
Such as my example of Camp Quest. Wonderful organisation, yet is vilified with accusations of brainwashing and indoctrination.
Camp Quest doesn't identify itself as an atheist organisation but that doesn't mean diddly squat to the critics.
I still think you have a good idea in what you propose, but I am worried that while it may fill a gap in some peoples lives, its a chink in the objective empiricists armour that can be manipulated by the dishonest.
Self-authenticating private evidence is useless, because it is indistinguishable from the illusion of it. ― Kel, Kelosophy Blog
If you’re going to watch tele, you should watch Scooby Doo. That show was so cool because every time there’s a church with a ghoul, or a ghost in a school. They looked beneath the mask and what was inside?
The f**king janitor or the dude who runs the waterslide. Throughout history every mystery. Ever solved has turned out to be. Not Magic. ― Tim Minchin, Storm
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 8:02 pm
Quote:I am an independent person, I most enjoy company whilst copulating
Me too; sex is good for one,but great for two. 
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 9:48 pm
(February 25, 2012 at 7:53 pm)Hypatia Wrote: @NoMoreFaith
The idea is not to create an “atheist organization,” the idea is to create an organization which atheists can join and gain purpose from. Subtle difference.
Let me give an example I have, so people can have an idea what I view as an alternative to religion:
An organization (doesn’t have to be formal, can just be a group of like-minded people) who join together weekly to discuss science, philosophy, politics (anything concerning humanity), listen to people give their thoughts on issues, and have a shared purpose in helping humanity in a certain way (be it in the realm of science, education, conservation, whatever) which they work on together.
Obviously that is just one example of what could be an alternative to religion. Could it be used for nefarious means? Sure, but so can every other organization. Is it an atheist organization? Yes, in the fact its members don’t believe in God, no, in the fact that belief is not central to the organization. This is exactly what I was referring to, as far as what I wish was available where I live.
Quote:In short; once you declare an atheist organisation as an alternative to religion, and fulfilling emotional needs, you are promoting a subjective opinion which weakens the foundation of objective empricism that Atheism stands for.
I don't think it necessarily has to be put forth as an alternative to religion. Why can't it stand alone as an organization for discussion, volunteer work, etc.? Take the Elks Lodge, for example. They pick a cause to raise funds for (ours does cerebral palsy), and they offer a sense of community. This is done without any specific religious affiliation. I know Elks that are Mormon, Jewish, Catholic, and Christian. I don't personally know any Atheist Elks members, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. My point is, it offers many of the same things a church offers, without religion as a focus. Why can't atheists band together to create something similar? I don't see how that would undermine "objective empiricism."
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RE: Lack of "Connection" to something higher - is this holding atheism back?
February 25, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Have you ever taken a look at for instance the Atheist Community of Austin, ACA? http://www.atheist-community.org/
There are more communities like these, doing exactly that what you look for.
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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