woman rights in Islam

[Violet]

I think he is trying to convey that we cannot make an organic fly... but I'm also not sure

[Darwinian]

Well, nature cannot make a mechanical fly either :p

[Last_ Ray]

Your english isn't causing any anger (though it can be eye-straining and difficult to understand)... but would you please stop quoting from the Quran?

But I said I will use the holy Quran and sciences discovering to prove that God is existent .
And all my past comments are only to communicate with you , I did not even start .

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

But I said I will use the holy Quran and sciences discovering to prove that God is existent .
And all my past comments are only to communicate with you , I did not even start .

My friend this is an atheist forum.That means most of us do not believe in god(s).That also means most of also reject revealed truths. We do not accept the Qur'an as an authority on anything.

If you want to be taken seriously you will need to express your own thoughts without relying on the Qur'an.
The Qur'an actually commands Muslims to seek the truth.This was the driving force of the Golden Age of Islam, C7th-9thCE.

Please show you have the capacity for independent thought or stop insulting our intelligence and go away.

Wa salaam

[Rhizomorph13]

Your english isn't causing any anger (though it can be eye-straining and difficult to understand)... but would you please stop quoting from the Quran?

But I said I will use the holy Quran and sciences discovering to prove that God is existent .
And all my past comments are only to communicate with you , I did not even start .

Last_Ray,

If you did prove that the Quran showed perfect knowledge about any subject that is within mans grasp, the only thing you would be proving is that man understood something earlier than we thought and wrote it in a book called the Quran.

Humans are capable of leaps of intuition, so it is not surprising that some person wrote something inspired by their observations of the world and, because they were religious, attributed their musing to Allah instead of starting the difficult task of providing evidence for their hypothesis.

Rhizo

[Last_ Ray]

Well, nature cannot make a mechanical fly either :p

Yes , I agree with you nature is not creator and never be a creator , because the creator is Allah , he created for you the materials to invent your mechanical fly . therefore we did not create the fly , we used the materials which have been created in this earth by Allah , we used and grouped and shaped these materials to look like the real Fly . but it is not a fly or near to be a fly .
For that : the creator is the one who create from nothing a creatures .
did the mechanical fly pass through the stages of creation " egg , maggot ,… then a complete fly " ? observe : each stage is a living creature
are the materials of mechanical fly not existent on earth or are they already have been created on earth ?

And the strange thing you said " nature " .
which is unreasonable thing created a creatures have targets in life . but when I ask you :
in our life is all our inventions by a wise people ? knew why they did invent these things before they invented them ? even if this invention was a needle . they invented it for a target and a reason .
what I said " a needle " solid not a living creature . but it was invented by a person knew the targets of this tool before invention it .
and when the case is the uncountable creations of god , you said : nature .. [ very strange ]

let me give you an example for this :
humanity thanked Mr.Edison for his wonderful invention " the Lamp " . which has been invented after many years of studying and experiments , also after many failing tests . and we made of this person one of the greatest scientists , we honored him . we consider Edison a very wise person . also we know that this lamp in one day will not lighting ,also will break

at the same time humanity is thankless for the great creator of this " Sun " which light the earth for millions of years , never stop , and shine on earth in Specific times .
but the disaster : most people consider the creator of this sun is nature [ very strange ] .

(([71]Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made night everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you light? Will ye not then hear?[72] Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made day everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you night wherein ye rest? Will ye not then see? )) Surah 28

Please explain : why you consider human's inventions have been invented by a wise people ? at the same time you consider all these creations in the universe come from unwise " nature " .

---

My friend this is an atheist forum.That means most of us do not believe in god(s).That also means most of also reject revealed truths. We do not accept the Qur'an as an authority on anything.

If you want to be taken seriously you will need to express your own thoughts without relying on the Qur'an.
The Qur'an actually commands Muslims to seek the truth.This was the driving force of the Golden Age of Islam, C7th-9thCE.

Please show you have the capacity for independent thought or stop insulting our intelligence and go away.

Wa salaam

Wa salaam
my friend : Thank you so much , these Polite words . means that I am dealing with a respectful person as many here .

please : consider my comments a different culture meets your culture and discuss with it by a polite way . and these discussions will never reach to be " a challenge or a debate " . friends are meeting and talking .

and about the Quran is not a problem , because what you did read is only a translation of the holy Quran these are not the real Arabic words .
and I think it is unacceptable for me to be a believer of Allah and the holy Quran , then I said I will not use the holy Quran . do you consider this is a faith ?

Wa Alykom Al-Salam [ peace upon you ]

---

I think he is trying to convey that we cannot make an organic fly... but I'm also not sure

yes Saerules .

[Darwinian]

You seem to be arguing from the point of view that because humans design with a goal in mind therefore the same must be true for all things. Firstly, most inventions are accidental with their creator stumbling by chance on solutions for various problems. Secondly, nature does not design with any goal in mind. In fact, it does not design at all. When I use the word nature I use it in the sense of describing a process, a beautiful and awe inspiring process but a process non the less with no particular end result in mind.

In your mind I suspect that you see design and intent all around you and of course you attribute this to an ultimate designer. But this is only because you have been brought up (programmed) to think this way.

This is a very anthropic way of looking at the world. Because this is how you would bring new things into the world you make the mistake in assuming that this is the only way these things can happen.

[theVOID]

Well, nature cannot make a mechanical fly either :p

Yes , I agree with you nature is not creator and never be a creator , because the creator is Allah , he created for you the materials to invent your mechanical fly . therefore we did not create the fly , we used the materials which have been created in this earth by Allah , we used and grouped and shaped these materials to look like the real Fly . but it is not a fly or near to be a fly .
For that : the creator is the one who create from nothing a creatures .
did the mechanical fly pass through the stages of creation " egg , maggot ,… then a complete fly " ? observe : each stage is a living creature
are the materials of mechanical fly not existent on earth or are they already have been created on earth ?

Have you got any proof what-so-ever that Allah was responsible for any of this?

And the strange thing you said " nature " .
which is unreasonable thing created a creatures have targets in life . but when I ask you :
in our life is all our inventions by a wise people ? knew why they did invent these things before they invented them ? even if this invention was a needle . they invented it for a target and a reason .
what I said " a needle " solid not a living creature . but it was invented by a person knew the targets of this tool before invention it .
and when the case is the uncountable creations of god , you said : nature .. [ very strange ]

A lot of things are invented by mistake, and i mean A LOT of things.

1. Viagra was supposed to be heart medication, it had almost no effect on the heart but instead caused increased blood flow to the penis so they redesigned it for a new use.

2. Corn flakes were an accident, they left corn pasta out in the sun accidentally and when they came back, rather than waste it, they tried to roll it anyway but the stale corn did not hold up as a sheet, it cracked into flakes.

3. Microwave ovens were an accident, it was supposed to create a vacuum for scientific experiments, instead it melted chocolate bars near by and popped corn.

4. The slinky was a spring designed to support sensitive equipment in naval ships

5. Fireworks were accidentally created in China by a chef who was attempting to create a new flavor for duck.

6. Flavored Popsicles were accidentally invented after an 11 year old boy left his fruit drink out over night in sub-zero temperatures.

7. Penicillin is the most important medical discovery in human history, it was discovered by accident when Alexander Flemings accidentally contaminated a plate of bacteria with it. He came back the next day to find that most of the samples had become more infected with bacteria as expected, but the penicillin plate had no visible signs of bacteria.

8. Cling-wrap was invented by accident when someone was trying to make an new color dye.

Also accidental was the ice cream cone, the pacemaker, superglue, LSD, Vulcanized rubber and dove soap just to name a few.

let me give you an example for this :
humanity thanked Mr.Edison for his wonderful invention " the Lamp " . which has been invented after many years of studying and experiments , also after many failing tests . and we made of this person one of the greatest scientists , we honored him . we consider Edison a very wise person . also we know that this lamp in one day will not lighting ,also will break

at the same time humanity is thankless for the great creator of this " Sun " which light the earth for millions of years , never stop , and shine on earth in Specific times .
but the disaster : most people consider the creator of this sun is nature [ very strange ]

Your ignorance about the creation of stars is startling, star formation is one of the best researched and understood fields in cosmology and astrophysics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_formation

There is no reason at all to assume that a creator was involved in making a hot ball of gas burn, if fact it is very simple physics.

(([71]Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made night everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you light? Will ye not then hear?[72] Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made day everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you night wherein ye rest? Will ye not then see? )) Surah 28

Who is a god other than Allah who can allegedly bring light? How about Yahweh, Ra, Helios, Malina, Amaterasu, Freyr, Apollo, Garuda, Lugh, Liza, Inti, Sunna, Sol Invictus, Tonatiuh, Utu..... There are many many many sun gods over the ages. What evidence do you have that it was Allah who made the sun and not any other God in history?

Please explain : why you consider human's inventions have been invented by a wise people ? at the same time you consider all these creations in the universe come from unwise " nature " .

Some were invented by wise people, because they understand cause and effect and useful purposes for the effects, but like i demonstrated earlier, many things we use every single day were invented entirely by accident. Nature is no different, the world we see around us, the cosmos that surrounds us, it is all just what is, what happened for (x) number of reasons at (x) time and (x) place, cause and effect.

[Autumnlicious]

Yes , I agree with you nature is not creator and never be a creator , because the creator is Allah , he created for you the materials to invent your mechanical fly . therefore we did not create the fly , we used the materials which have been created in this earth by Allah , we used and grouped and shaped these materials to look like the real Fly . but it is not a fly or near to be a fly .
For that : the creator is the one who create from nothing a creatures .
did the mechanical fly pass through the stages of creation " egg , maggot ,… then a complete fly " ? observe : each stage is a living creature
are the materials of mechanical fly not existent on earth or are they already have been created on earth ?

So if everything is made by Allah and therefore, by extension, all items made are also by Allah. Therefore humans or anything else cannot create anything as it is pre-made or suddenly 'made' by Allah.

I'm sorry, but this sure as hell feels like a circular argument.

And the strange thing you said " nature " .
which is unreasonable thing created a creatures have targets in life . but when I ask you :
in our life is all our inventions by a wise people ? knew why they did invent these things before they invented them ? even if this invention was a needle . they invented it for a target and a reason .
what I said " a needle " solid not a living creature . but it was invented by a person knew the targets of this tool before invention it .
and when the case is the uncountable creations of god , you said : nature .. [ very strange ]

I have no fucking clue what you said here. It appears that you ramble on about how all inventions have a reason or plan before they are created, illogically base a premise that all life is created by Allah and then express confusion at the use of the term 'nature'. Please either use simpler sentences and actually try to make a logical argument that can at least be followed.

let me give you an example for this :
humanity thanked Mr.Edison for his wonderful invention " the Lamp " . which has been invented after many years of studying and experiments , also after many failing tests . and we made of this person one of the greatest scientists , we honored him . we consider Edison a very wise person . also we know that this lamp in one day will not lighting ,also will break

at the same time humanity is thankless for the great creator of this " Sun " which light the earth for millions of years , never stop , and shine on earth in Specific times .
but the disaster : most people consider the creator of this sun is nature [ very strange ] .

There is no 'creator' for the damn sun. Tell me, have you even been introduced to a concept called 'Gravity'? Mayhap you haven't, but let me tell you that a star forms when dense pockets of gas clump together and collapse in on itself, igniting. The reason it clumps together is because, hold on to your turbans for another BIIIIG word, "Entropy". Yes, the universe, our sun and everyone around you are merely products and mechanisms for increasing entropy. Nothing reverses entropy in the grand scale. Nothing.

And your logic for a creator is the assumption that because objects break or die out, and thinking entities like man make objects in general, therefore all objects much have a thinking entity as a creator. I'm sorry, but your logic fails. There is nothing defined in across all possible objects that demands there must be a creator. There may be causes, like the reason that funny smell in your shoe was caused by a foot fungus. But to say something like the foot fungus 'created' in the same context as a human or deity may create is plainly absurd.

(([71]Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made night everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you light? Will ye not then hear?[72] Say: Have ye thought, if Allah made day everlasting for you till the Day of Resurrection, who is a god beside Allah who could bring you night wherein ye rest? Will ye not then see? )) Surah 28

Error. Mindless Quran quote does not make sense except for self-referential argument.

Please explain : why you consider human's inventions have been invented by a wise people ? at the same time you consider all these creations in the universe come from unwise " nature " .

---

There is nothing the definition or requirements for 'invention' that connotes that a 'wise' person designed it. And nature does not have the qualities of wisdom - you cannot ascribe to nature what it does not have.

Wa salaam
my friend : Thank you so much , these Polite words . means that I am dealing with a respectful person as many here .

please : consider my comments a different culture meets your culture and discuss with it by a polite way . and these discussions will never reach to be " a challenge or a debate " . friends are meeting and talking .

and about the Quran is not a problem , because what you did read is only a translation of the holy Quran these are not the real Arabic words .
and I think it is unacceptable for me to be a believer of Allah and the holy Quran , then I said I will not use the holy Quran . do you consider this is a faith ?

You hide your poor logic, argumentation behind the veil of 'culture'. You also disguise your preaching as something akin to what friends do. Then you finally disclaim any dissatisfaction with your Quran quotes with the excuse that it "is only a translation of the holy Quran" with none of the "real Arabic words". As if changing languages would enhance your argumentation - the only thing it could do is make your Quran quotes more pretty to annunciate.

Wa Alykom Al-Salam [ peace upon you ]

---

I think he is trying to convey that we cannot make an organic fly... but I'm also not sure

yes Saerules .

Look into Craig Venter's work on creating artificial biological organisms.

[Last_ Ray]

inshaa Allah , I will meet you after 5 days .
because I am going tomorrow to perform Hajj , with 2.5 millions Muslims in Makkah .
please accept my gift about Makkah , enjoy watching :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODvvEb47s...re=related

truly I did not check the information , but I will leave it for you