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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)pocaracas Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:14 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: I was once a follower of Christianity so I "get it." But, one has to redefine how he/she perceives reality in the truest sense of the word, for the spiritual realm might seem real, but it isn't.
Feelings, coincidental outcomes that seem to have sprung forth from prayer, opinion, etc...are not based on objective reality. It is far better for a religious person to say, "I choose to believe that God exists," rather than "Jesus is alive!" I wouldn't have worded it like that...
I don't think people choose to believe in whatever... It looks more like they have no choice on the matter... they just believe.
After adequate instruction, they may either choose to dismiss anything that brings that belief into question, or come to the point where they no longer believe.
This too is incorrect. I am a moral free agent who possesses volitional capabilities. My choices regarding my beliefs are not compulsory, but voluntary.
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:41 pm)discipulus Wrote: I am not an empiricist. There are several things I maintain exist that cannot be empirically measured.
Like what?
Like my love for this forum! Ah ha!
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:48 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2014 at 12:49 pm by discipulus.)
(March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:41 pm)discipulus Wrote: I am not an empiricist. There are several things I maintain exist that cannot be empirically measured.
Like what?
Other minds besides my own for one.
My thoughts for two....
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:49 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:47 pm)discipulus Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)pocaracas Wrote: I wouldn't have worded it like that...
I don't think people choose to believe in whatever... It looks more like they have no choice on the matter... they just believe.
After adequate instruction, they may either choose to dismiss anything that brings that belief into question, or come to the point where they no longer believe.
This too is incorrect. I am a moral free agent who possesses volitional capabilities. My choices regarding my beliefs are not compulsory, but voluntary.
Then you, my friend, are a rarity.
That'll teach me to use generic stuff too broadly... 
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:50 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)discipulus Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:44 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Let me rephrase, sorry. No one knows if a spiritual realm exists or does not. Currently, there is no evidence (legit) to confirm that it exists. It's currently a manifestation of wishful thinking and imagination.
You know this is true but you hope in a higher power. I don't think what you believe is stupid. I just hope for you to be honest with what it is you "think" you believe.
I know it exists so your statement is incorrect.
Therein lies the disconnect between us. You have redefined what you consider to be reality, as opposed to what it really is.
You don't know anymore than me or anyone else here, you HOPE. It's ok to hope but don't mistake it for something that it isn't. 
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:50 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:48 pm)discipulus Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Like what?
Other minds besides my own for one.
The software... it is elusive...
Brain debuggers are not yet available to us...
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:51 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2014 at 12:54 pm by Jacob(smooth).)
(March 10, 2014 at 12:41 pm)discipulus Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:31 pm)Jacob(smooth) Wrote: How can you say that it does, since by definition the spirit realm cannot be empirically measured...
I am not an empiricist. There are several things I maintain exist that cannot be empirically measured.
Me too! 
But the burden of proof remains on me to show that those things exist, not on you to show that they DON'T exist.
A question like how can you say the spirit realm does not exist makes no sense because it works from the default position that it does. Be like asking you how you can say my dog doesn't exist. The dog may or may not but unless I you evidence that it does there is no way you can show that it doesn't.
"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken."
Sith code
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:53 pm
(March 10, 2014 at 12:48 pm)discipulus Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: Like what?
Other minds besides my own for one.
My thoughts for two....
Thoughts are part of the cognitive process therefore there's proof that your thoughts stem from something.
People have brains, yes, um that can proven.
Ok, anything else? Stop being silly. :-P
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:56 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2014 at 12:57 pm by discipulus.)
(March 10, 2014 at 12:50 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:45 pm)discipulus Wrote: I know it exists so your statement is incorrect.
Therein lies the disconnect between us. You have redefined what you consider to be reality, as opposed to what it really is.
You don't know anymore than me or anyone else here, you HOPE. It's ok to hope but don't mistake it for something that it isn't.
No. Sorry Deidre. You and I are fundamentally different.
(March 10, 2014 at 12:53 pm)Deidre32 Wrote: (March 10, 2014 at 12:48 pm)discipulus Wrote: Other minds besides my own for one.
My thoughts for two....
Thoughts are part of the cognitive process therefore there's proof that your thoughts stem from something.
People have brains, yes, um that can proven.
Ok, anything else? Stop being silly. :-P
How much does a thought weigh Deidre? How much space do they take up, since you seem to think they can be measured...tell me.
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RE: Debate with a Christian
March 10, 2014 at 12:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 10, 2014 at 1:01 pm by Foxaèr.)
(March 10, 2014 at 12:56 pm)discipulus Wrote: How much does a thought weigh Deidre? How much space do they take up, since you seem to think they can be measured...tell me.
The wind does not weigh anything. It does not appear to take up any space either. Yet, we can observe the effects that the wind has on things around us. Thoughts are much the same. The same, however, cannot be stated for a mythological deity. Especially, considering that primitive men who prefer to adhere to the belief in mythology as real tend to view that which can be explained naturally as a process of something supernatural. Which makes no logical sense.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
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