What God is to the Universe is what your mind is to your body

[bennyboy]

Unlike most here, I take the issue of qualia (the subjective experience of what things are like) as quite mysterious. There's nothing I know about matter that would allow me to see red light as the experience of "redness." I take as one possibility either that the Universe is actually idealistic, with all the physical reality really being our experience of a conglomeration of ideas (something like the Matrix), or that the Universe is panpsychic-- i.e. that at least the elements of mind are in everything, or at least in every energetic interchange.

In either of those cases, you could DEFINE God as the sum total of the mental activity of the universe. But the problem with Christians who make this kind of philosophical argument is that it's a pivot point. They'll generally say something like: "Panpsychism, therefore God, therefore believe in Sky Daddy and the resurrection of Christ." This is a sad non sequitur at best.

[bennyboy]

Mind is an emergent property of a complex brain. Any more questions?

I have one. How is it that matter has the capacity to allow the emergence of mind?

I can see how a physical system could PROCESS say red light and do stuff. But when I look at red things, I see redness. That fact is not really explained by waving in the general direction of the brain.

Intrinsic to the Universe is this capacity for material systems to subjectively experience themselves or other things, rather than to just process them and do stuff.

[The Grand Nudger]

Mind is an emergent property of a complex brain. Any more questions?

I have one.  How is it that matter has the capacity to allow the emergence of mind?

Fundamentally, because matter can interact.  Certain arrangements of matter can interact more robustly than other arrangements, it seems.  

I can see how a physical system could PROCESS say red light and do stuff.  But when I look at red things, I see redness.  That fact is not really explained by waving in the general direction of the brain.

Is it your contention that other things do not, or that your seeing red is qualitatively or quantitatively different from whatever other matter might be doing?  Does a digital camera not "see red"? We've done more than just wave at the brain with regards to studying color and our perception of color.

Intrinsic to the Universe is this capacity for material systems to subjectively experience themselves or other things, rather than to just process them and do stuff.

Your "rather" and "just" appears to be an arbitrary and undemonstrable distinction. Is your brain not processing things and doing stuff? The ability of the brain to process things and do stuff is our best and most evidenced explanation for our minds, and that includes our subjective experiences.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Mind is an emergent property of a complex brain. Any more questions?

I have one.  How is it that matter has the capacity to allow the emergence of mind?

I can see how a physical system could PROCESS say red light and do stuff.  But when I look at red things, I see redness.  That fact is not really explained by waving in the general direction of the brain.

Intrinsic to the Universe is this capacity for material systems to subjectively experience themselves or other things, rather than to just process them and do stuff.

I don't know. I suppose it has to see something.

If the "direction of the brain" isn't your preferred direction, hey, believe what you will. But I guarantee that if you suffer brain damage, your perceptions will be altered, and that's strong evidence that mind is based on brain architecture, which lies at the root of my point.

Also, most material systems don't subjectively experience anything -- at least going by their (lack of) reportage.

[LadyForCamus]

A false equivalence leveraged for poor analogy, foisted aloft by a non sequitur.  Gratz.

You do realize all three of those are the same thing, right?

A Non-sequitur is not necessarily the same as the other two...

But here you go again EP...

Pick, pick, pick...

[fdesilva]

Your mother needed to have a Mind. The fact she uses her body is no different to a person using his hands to make a work of art. So bottom line you could not have come into existence without your mothers mind.

Given that mind is an emergent property of a brain that is part of a body, you're belaboring the obvious. But you're also miscategorizing the requirement. Fact is, comatose women have been kept on life-support so that they could bring their fetus to term (http://www.medicaldaily.com/life-support...aby-389238, http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/04/br...33381.html, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Torres).


In this case it needed even more minds Doctors Nurses etc

As much as you needed a mother the big bang needs one.

You'll need to demonstrate that need. Simply repeating it is not demonstration.

Was it mindless is the question. Does matter create the mind or mind create matter?

Mind is an emergent property of a complex brain. Any more questions?

The Mind cannot be an emergent property. My reasons are given on this thread

http://atheistforums.org/thread-44629.html

A more detail account on
http://tianweb.com/Event%20to%20Dualism.pdf

and

http://philpapers.org/rec/DESCAS

[Faith No More]

Interesting...

Frank Lee DeSilva also Frank Silva was a member of the militant white nationalist organization Die Bruder Schweigen, also known as the (Silent Brotherhood), and later the author of several racialist, White Nationalist, works.

[bennyboy]

Is it your contention that other things do not, or that your seeing red is qualitatively or quantitatively different from whatever other matter might be doing?  Does a digital camera not "see red"?  We've done more than just wave at the brain with regards to studying color and our perception of color.  

No, I do not believe a camera sees anything.

Your "rather" and "just" appears to be an arbitrary and undemonstrable distinction. Is your brain not processing things and doing stuff?  The ability of the brain to process things and do stuff is our best and most evidenced explanation for our minds, and that includes our subjective experiences.

Show me what part of physics, what universal properties, qualities or forces, can, in any combination, allow for my actual experience of redness. Sure, you can wave in the general direction of the brain. But that's no more an explanation of the existence of subjective awareness than a computer is for the existence of League of Legends.

[fdesilva]

Interesting...

Frank Lee DeSilva also Frank Silva was a member of the militant white nationalist organization Die Bruder Schweigen, also known as the (Silent Brotherhood), and later the author of several racialist, White Nationalist, works.

Why this info?

[Faith No More]

Why this info?

Because that's who your username is and the person that wrote the PDF you posted.