Tooth Fairy Bullshit

[robvalue]

Let's say a group of people who believe goats talk to them and that goats are magic and goats run the universe find a cure for cancer.

That's amazing, right! Should I respect their goat belief? Hell no. It's stupid, regardless of what the people did or didn't do. I respect what they did, for what it is. Wow, they cured cancer. They are great people for having done that. The goat part is no more true, or respectable, however. It's irrelevant. Maybe it inspired them! Good for them. It's still stupid.

[chimp3]

As I said on a different thread, one of the double standards I see among some people here (not all) is that they are quick to attribute a person's bad actions to their religious beliefs. But when a person does something good after being inspired/influenced by their religious beliefs to do so, all of the sudden religion has nothing to do with that person's actions.

Perhaps religious people are judged by a different standard because of their claim that their source of morality is superior to that of non-believers.

[The Grand Nudger]

Or maybe they're not, and it's just the usual christian martyr complex cropping up.

[robvalue]

If someone does something good because of their religious beliefs, rather than just doing it because it's a good thing to do, then that's not admirable. It's just following rules. It is just lucky it was a good thing they did and not a bad one, this time.

If their beliefs inspire them to be a good person in general, and then they go on to do good things, then that is great. It's good they found inspiration. It doesn't make their beliefs true or respectable though, as I highlighted with my goat example.

[Tonus]

The difference between the tooth fairy and god is that parents reveal the former as a myth at a relatively early age.

[ignoramus]

Tonus? Wadda ya mean the tooth fairy isn't real? You're just kidding, right?

[Neo-Scholastic]

[quote='Neo-Scholastic' pid='1486079' dateline='1484250337']Christians did not start the first Universities, the Greeks did.
Christians did not start the first Hospitals the Greeks did, (that I can find).

I don't think the academic system of ancient Greece in truly comparable to the Universities. We could easily quibble about the specifics such as the scope of study, their exclusivity, their status as public goods, etc. For example, Greek academies were organized around specific teachers, like Pythagorus, Aristotle or Plotinus. Similarly for hospitals. Many countries had infirmities, but Christians made medical care more widely accessible.. That would make it a matter of degree rather than of kind. At least in the modern era, the boom in hospital building was motivated by Christians.

Christians were not the first to abolish slavery, The Secular French Republic did.

I think it goes back much further, at least to the Spanish monarchs. It was a major issue in the 1600's between Spanish and Portuguese colonies in the New World.

[Catholic_Lady]

As I said on a different thread, one of the double standards I see among some people here (not all) is that they are quick to attribute a person's bad actions to their religious beliefs. But when a person does something good after being inspired/influenced by their religious beliefs to do so, all of the sudden religion has nothing to do with that person's actions.

Perhaps religious people are judged by a different standard because of their claim that their source of morality is superior to that of non-believers.

I don't mind us being held to a higher standard. We should be. But that's not the double standard I was pointing out.

[GUBU]

From our perspective both are identically mythical.  Many of us have had discussions with those who think they are the "best and the brightest" and, frankly, their arguments are stupid.  And what do you expect, exactly?  Do you realize how people who hold no belief in a deity are generally treated around the world?  What do you expect is going to happen if you marginalize a population, insist that they are immoral and not to be trusted and threaten them with death or worse?  They're going to get pissed off and start making fun of you.  Boo fucking hoo.

And you're one to talk about acting like an intellectual little snark.  You, who has no problem calling others ignorant and uninformed if they don't hold your beliefs.  The only difference is that your aggression is more passive most of the time.  You are a smug little prick about your beliefs no less.

And your notions that hospitals came to be because of religious convictions is just bullshit.  People are people, regardless their beliefs.  If religion never existed, hospitals still would.  Colleges still would.  There are good people in the world.  That some of those good people had access to the vast fortune religion accumulates speaks highly of them, not the religion which provided the fortune.  Good people can have stupid beliefs.  I have known good people who were atheists and bad people who were devout Christians.  It doesn't take religion to be a good person.

And as I have stated before, Catholic hospitals are not the great works of charity one would be led to believe.  Catholic hospitals usually supplant public and other private hospitals and provide charity care at a rate of roughly half that of public hospitals.  They also refuse service to people when it conflicts with Catholic beliefs without the most remote concern for the well-being of the patient, in full contrast to the Hippocratic Oath.  If a woman goes to a Catholic hospital in the middle of having a miscarriage which threatens her life she will not even be told that having an abortion will significantly reduce the threat to her health.  Her health is less important that the Catholic belief that ending a pregnancy early, even if the fetus has zero chance of survival, is worse than letting the woman die from the miscarriage.

Your beliefs are not due my respect, least of all because "some guy" held them and that guy was a really good guy.  I don't see you singing the praises of James Randi, who has devoted his life and fortune to discrediting charlatans.  I don't see you singing the praises of Richard Dawkins for his work in discrediting bunk science to keep it out of schools.  I don't see you commending the Freedom From Religion Foundation for keeping us free to not hold religious beliefs.  And hell, I don't go to Christian forums and tell all the little crybaby Christians there what dicks they are for making fun of my beliefs that there are no gods.  YOU are the one coming HERE, bitching and whining that we don't respect your fairy tales.  Again, boo fucking hoo.

You're talking to a man who put me on ignore because I called him on his bullshit once too often, and then sent me a snotty little pussy of a PM claiming that I was persecuting him.

[Minimalist]

Christians did not start the first Universities, the Greeks did.

Rampaging mobs of ignorant xtian fucktards did burn down the libraries of antiquity though.  You have to give them credit for that!