Sceptic"s annotated Quran

[Rayaan]

I invite mulims of this forum to give a link to a site that explains that those are not contradictions(If you google sceptics annotated Qur'an you can see the list of contradictions) and why are they not if that kind of link exists.

The contradictions:
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/..._name.html

Refutations:
Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4

Or can you please post answeres as to why are those not contradictions.

All the answers to the so-called contradictions are in the links above.

I went through several of those contradiction claims and I can already see why they are not contradictions. One of the reasons for the apparent contradictions are simply because of leaving out certain verses that come before or after the stated verses, which are important for understanding the context and the true meaning of the particular passage that they have quoted in that website.

Also, many of the meanings of the Quran are being distorted because of the poor translation from Arabic to English. That's what the skeptics are doing. They don't know Arabic and they are only re-wording the verses according to their own interpretations of reading the English translations from the internet.

However, the skeptics are certainly not as knowledgeable as the Muslim scholars of the past and present who have read and analyzed the Quranic verses (each and every one of them) in the Arabic language for a great portion of their lives and found not a single contradiction in the Quran. If there were any contradictions, Muslims would've known about them a long time ago. And so far no one was able to find a real contradiction in the Quran.

One of the most serious contradictions in the Qur'an would be how it says that to set up parnters in worship with God is not to be forgiven iregardles of repentance. The verses 4:48 and and 4:116 mention it and than in the others verse at 39:53 says not to despair of Gods mercy for he forgives all sins.

Again in 25:68....70 in the Quran it clearly states that worshiping other than God will be forgiven if you repent.

That's not a contradiction either.

Verses 4:48 and 4:116 are simply saying that Allah does not forgive those who worship Him along with other gods (which is polytheism). Verse 39:53 says that Allah forgives all types of sins - and He does that only if you repent to Him - which is what verses verses 25:69-70 say in the Quran: "The penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in disgrace. Except for those who repent, believe, and do righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil deeds of such persons into good ones, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful" (Surah 25:69-70).

You'll find a more detailed and scholarly explanation at the links below:

Does Allah forgive all sins:
http://islamic-replies.ucoz.com/Does_All..._sins.html

Does Allah forgive Shirk:
http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.ph...us%20Quran

Can you please give me explanations how after knowing this you still accept the Quran and take it seriously?

I don't accept any of those contradictions because I know that all of them are wrong. I certainly take the Quran seriously.

Thanks

You're welcome, and if you have any more specific contradictions and/or confusions about the Quran, then feel free to post them in this thread.

[Ervin]

Thanks brother/comrade/felow forumite Rayaan. Recently I have had some discusions with an Imam somewere over in ex Yugoslavia andf because I told him that I am suspicious abot the hadiths he after a couple of posts ignored me and now doesn't want to answer any of my questions or elaborate on my comments.

But you did and that is a very good thing. To kill someone who disagres or were you can't kill to simply cease any friendship with him/her based on diferences in religion is I think an admision of the fact that he/she can't overcame their anger based on that diference.

OK, I haven't looked at your links but before I do I will ask you some other questions. What can you say about the hadith that contradicts the Quran. Also why would you believe that the hadith were 100% corect when it was transleted from person to person through Chinese whispers. Like he/her sad to him and than he said to him and on for two hundred years and then the Bukhari comes along first about two hundred years later and records it.

The worst of those recordings are I think were it says that Muhammad was maried to a six year old and started living in marriage with her when she was 9. I mean comon you don't think that its corect to live with the 9 year old in marriage, don't you?

Can you please answer and elaborate?

Thanks

[annatar]

Hello Rayaan..
May I ask your opinion about some of the mistakes in quran?
First of, Tell me about heritage issue.. Why does allah can't do a simple math??

Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Nisa 11.
And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing.
Nisa 12.

Now these are the instructions to divide your heritage..
Lets say you have 3 daughters, a wive, a father and a mother and lets try to divide your heritage;
Lets say you had 60$

"But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate."
so you have 3 daughters... 2/3 of the heritage is theirs.. 60*2/3=40$

"And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children."
you left children and you have parents that means they will take 1/6 each..
60/6=10*2=20

what have we got so far.. 40$ to girls.. and 20$ to parents.. 40+20=60$ oops we already reached to your whole heritage but we still have to give something to your wife...

"But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt."
Im sorry dude, you left child and your wife wants her share... So she has to get 1/8 of it.. 60/8=7.5$

so 40+20+7.5= 67.5
you need some extra cash sir...
So your god cant even do a simple math.. How come you still believe in him???
Before you start barking about how muslims solve this problem let me warn you:
You can't possibly solve this problem without changing the clear commands of quran!

Quran has so many contradictions in it.. I know that becouse I was a muslim too...
Here if you are intrested we made same discussion with another member of this forum in this thread:
http://atheistforums.org/thread-4054.html
You can find the portions of that contradictions in this thread and we can discuss it further if you like..

[Ervin]

Rayaan, I apologise for not reading your posts first. I didn't know that you are a God alone muslim. I was guesing that you are the mainstream traditional hadith folowing muslim.

By the way you were the first one to give me full detailed answers as to aleged contradicions in the Quran.

God alone Islam is something I have been looking into lately.

Thanks

[Rayaan]

What can you say about the hadith that contradicts the Quran.

The hadiths which contradict the Quran, and it has been established by the majority of scholars that they contradict the Quran (with logical proofs), then they simply have to be discarded.

But rejecting hadiths which seem to contradict the Quran have to be done carefully and correctly. Sometimes, it may appear to us that an authentic hadith is contradicting the Quran when actually it is not contradicting the Quran. This could be due to our limited understanding of the hadith, or a false interpration of either the hadith or the Quran, because an authentic hadith which is true should never contradict the Quran.

The Quran is a lot more authentic than the hadiths and also more important than the hadiths. However, the hadiths and the Quran should be mutually compatible given that the narrators are reliable and that they are interpreted correctly. I'm not saying the hadiths and the Quran are equally important, because that is definitely not true. The point is that the hadiths should be used as a complementary source along with the Quran, for learning about additional things. Therefore, both the Quran and Hadith are important sources for learning about the teachings of Islam.

Also why would you believe that the hadith were 100% corect when it was transleted from person to person through Chinese whispers. Like he/her sad to him and than he said to him and on for two hundred years and then the Bukhari comes along first about two hundred years later and records it.

It's not necessary to be 100% certain if a hadith is true or not, because being close to 100% certain is good enough. Why? Because it is better to accept hadiths with a slight chance of error than to not accept them at all. There are many hadiths which cannot be ignored, because they are necessary to know the details behind the fundamentals of Islam such as how to perform the prayer, fasting, and charity/zakaat.

Although hadiths could be fallible, they are not totally fallible either.

A more important question is: How much fallible are they, or in other words, what are the chances of them being fallible? As you may already know, all scholars are aware that there is always a potential for there to be slight mistakes here and there in the process of hadith narration. So, that is the reason why hadith scholars carefully study the hadiths – and the elements of hadith such as the narrators, the isnad, meaning, translation, etc. - in order to establish the authenticity of the hadiths one by one. You can learn more about the levels of hadith classification at the link below:

Notes on the Science of Hadith and Rules Governing the Criticism of Hadith.

And see this on the soundness of Bukhari hadiths:
http://islamqa.com/en/ref/122705/soundness

Hello Rayaan..
May I ask your opinion about some of the mistakes in quran?
First of, Tell me about heritage issue.. Why does allah can't do a simple math??

Hello annatar,

I've heard about this story before, but actually, there is no mathematical errors in the verses that you quoted. The only problem is that you're not understanding the specific details behind the verses. Therefore, you're calculation is not acceptable because you got it wrong from the very start. But I'll try to help you out with an explanation and a few links as well (just to make it easier for you to understand what's going on).

Well, the whole inehritance contradiction stems from the fact that the interpretation that you gave fails to recognize that there are only two categories of inheritors (as stipulated in the verses). The law of inheirtance is based upon those that take from what is total and those that take from what is left.

Parents fall under the first category (first taking from the total). The Quran states, "And if the deceased has children, the parents shall inherit a sixth each, and if he has no children and the parents are his heirs then his mother shall receive a third, and if he has brothers and sisters then the mother's share is the same one-sixth" (Surah 4:11).

The same is the case for spouses: "You shall get half of what your wives leave, if they die childless. But if they do have children, your share shall then be a quarter of what they leave after carrying out any will made by the deceased or payment of any debt owed by her" (Surah 4:12).

If you're still not getting it, then please carefully read all the info at the links below, if you truly want to understand.

Answered by:
Ansar Al-'Adl, Ousman Ahmad, Dr. Abid Hussain, Moiz Amjad.

Plus two more:
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.p...e=11&to=14
http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.p...176&to=177

I didn't know that you are a God alone muslim. I was guesing that you are the mainstream traditional hadith folowing muslim.

No, I am not a God alone Muslim. Actually there is no such thing as a "God alone Muslim" or a "God alone Islam" as wrote in your comments above, because if you are a true Muslim, then you have to believe that both the Quran and hadiths are divine revelations which was sent down to the Prophet (pbuh), in addition to believing in a God. It is 100% against Islam to only believe in the Quran while rejecting the hadiths (or the sayings of the prophet), because in the Quran it says, "Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and be cautious" (Surah 5:92). So, the main point that I'm trying to say is that following the Quran alone is not enough to be a Muslim.

Here's a quote from an article on why hadith rejection is a bad idea if you're a Muslim:

Sometimes people who reject the hadith do so premised on the argument that the Qur’an is indisputably authentic (mutawatir), while most hadiths are not (ahadiyyah). That is, we don’t have 100% confidence in the authenticity and credibility of the hadith reports, while we do have 100% certainty that the Qur’an as it is has been transmitted to us without being altered.

True indeed! But we must still make a distinction between the hadiths that are not indisputably authentic but give us near certainty that they are authentic (sahih ahadi/hasan ahadi), and those hadiths that give us more reason to believe that they are not true (da’if).

http://www.lamppostproductions.com/files...ENOUGH.pdf

[Skipper]

Rayaan, I apologise for not reading your posts first. I didn't know that you are a God alone muslim. I was guesing that you are the mainstream traditional hadith folowing muslim.

By the way you were the first one to give me full detailed answers as to aleged contradicions in the Quran.

God alone Islam is something I have been looking into lately.

Thanks

Can I ask that as a person who says he is undecided, yet believes that there is a possibility some sort of intelligent design in the universe why you are looking at certain religions? Are you looking to join/follow a religion? And if so, why? Why does your belief need structure? Why can't your belief just be personal?

An honest and genuine question as I have never understood why people who are not born into religions or think differently later in life feel the need to join any religion as the chances of it being the right/correct/true one over all the other possible religions man has created is so small. Why can't a faith be personal, why does it have to have a gang mentality.

You may not be wanting to join a religion at all, but if you are I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Ervin]

Yes Skiper, I understand your logic. I also think like that at times and that is what is pointing me in the direction of Deism.

I don't want to preach but I will tell you a few things about my personal beliefs on whats God like. I'l be very brief.

Ok She loves everyone but not everyone will get an eternal life. Those that don't wil cease to exist. She doesn't get involved in our affairs or anyone elses in this dimension hence the evil or animal eating alive animal etc. She just observes.

She wants us to be strict vegans and to have great future thanks to scientific advancement. There might be some negative forces on earth and hopefuly science tels us in future how to overcame them.

She is love through and through. She has sparked the creation and left it to unfold on its own. She can't hate, the only reason that the unreformed criminals can't continue to live after this death is because its imposible, not because she wants them to cease.

She is a hipie.

Now thats a very brief explanation of my personal beliefs on whats God like.

HOWEVER, sometimes because of certain experiences I believe that there is Satan and the Quran makes sense not the hadith were Muhammad alegedly maries a 9 year old but the Quran only and I end up investigating.

And then at times I think this is all primitive people used to try to explain what science is explaining today and naiveley believing in what seems barbaric belief/s.

So I am here to investigate and I had to put undecided because thats what I am. Unbiased and undecided.

I apologise if the way I am curently anoys anyone! I am trying to make a decision!

Thanks

[annatar]

Hello Rayaan..
May I ask your opinion about some of the mistakes in quran?
First of, Tell me about heritage issue.. Why does allah can't do a simple math??

Hello annatar,

I've heard about this story before, but actually, there is no mathematical errors in the verses that you quoted. The only problem is that you're not understanding the specific details behind the verses. Therefore, you're calculation is not acceptable because you got it wrong from the very start. But I'll try to help you out with an explanation and a few links as well (just to make it easier for you to understand what's going on).

Well, the whole inehritance contradiction stems from the fact that the interpretation that you gave fails to recognize that there are only two categories of inheritors (as stipulated in the verses). The law of inheirtance is based upon those that take from what is total and those that take from what is left.

Well.. I've heard that foolish argument before so many time. if I had a nickel...
In fact some other member of this forum made the same mistake you can see that in here..
You are telling that becouse you didn't read it properly...
PLEASE READ THE VERSES FIRST!!

Lets see if its as you said or NOT:

Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females. But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate. And if there is only one, for her is half. And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children. But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third. And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt. Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
Nisa 11.
And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child. But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt. And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child. But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt. And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth. But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing.
Nisa 12.

Read the bold letters and read them carefully!
It clearly indicates to all of the heritage!
Ah but I see you are refering to this line;
" But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave"
Eight of What you leave means from all of your all heritage and its pretty clear..
In fact even muslims know that and using some tricks to solve this problem which is called awl..
What I see here is an ignorant prophet making a mistake and his brainwashed followers trying to cover that obvious mistake..
Please Do not send me some links instead of proper answers! Its not a polite thing to do..
Besides, dont you have your own mind?

[Skipper]

Yes Skiper, I understand your logic. I also think like that at times and that is what is pointing me in the direction of Deism.

I don't want to preach but I will tell you a few things about my personal beliefs on whats God like. I'l be very brief.

Ok She loves everyone but not everyone will get an eternal life. Those that don't wil cease to exist. She doesn't get involved in our affairs or anyone elses in this dimension hence the evil or animal eating alive animal etc. She just observes.

She wants us to be strict vegans and to have great future thanks to scientific advancement. There might be some negative forces on earth and hopefuly science tels us in future how to overcame them.

She is love through and through. She has sparked the creation and left it to unfold on its own. She can't hate, the only reason that the unreformed criminals can't continue to live after this death is because its imposible, not because she wants them to cease.

She is a hipie.

Now thats a very brief explanation of my personal beliefs on whats God like.

HOWEVER, sometimes because of certain experiences I believe that there is Satan and the Quran makes sense not the hadith were Muhammad alegedly maries a 9 year old but the Quran only and I end up investigating.

And then at times I think this is all primitive people used to try to explain what science is explaining today and naiveley believing in what seems barbaric belief/s.

So I am here to investigate and I had to put undecided because thats what I am. Unbiased and undecided.

I apologise if the way I am curently anoys anyone! I am trying to make a decision!

Thanks

Your not annoying me at all. The fact you seem to have an open mind is a welcome change of pace to the other type of religious folk we get here.

I still don't however understand why you need a religion when you seem to already have a good idea on what YOUR idea of a god. By accepting a religion you will be subscribing to THEIR idea of a god and THEIR rules on how THEY think god wants you to act.

Your idea of a god (while I doubt an existence of said god) seems fairly pure, and that wont last if you join a religion as you will subscribing to all the evil all the mass religions involve, especially Islam.

I also would like to ask where you got the idea of a god that wants us to be vegan and is hipie? This sounds a lot like what you want it to be, not logically what it would be.

And also the idea that "she is love through and through" and created teh universe yet it is then impossible for criminals to carry on existing despite her wanting them to. Can you explain? Because if I was an all loving being that had the power to create the universe and time I'm sure it would be possible and within what I would want to do as an all loving being to let them live in whatever after life it is you suggest exists.

[Ervin]

Yes you are right Skiper, a theistic religion is always thinking what the Book says, never what you personaly think and it ca be overated sometimes.

Even with my own version of God there is a religion and thats Deism. In Deism all you have to believe is that there is one creator of everything and to reject theism. Like Chuck Clendenen wrote in his book"Deist, thats what I am" that Deism is a celebration of individualism.

Reason why deists believe there is one God and not more than one is because a Deist believes like Bon Johnson of the World union of deists said once that there can be only one supreme of everything.

Reason that a Deist rejects theism is because of aleged contradictions and absurdities.

My personal opinion is that maybe we all continue living after death but those that have major, serious criminal bad habits would have to go through some sort of cleansing, otherwise they would disturb balance and cause trouble.

Ofcourse my personal form of Deism is that I don't nkow that there is a God so its a form of agnosticism, but not just any agnosticism, strictly deist.

By the way I think that we have gone from Allah to a hipie God, and this forum should be as far as I know for discusion of Islam.

Thanks