Atheism, Deism & Christianity

[lucent]

Actually, blood cleansing, human sacrifice, baptism, virgin births, etc. etc. came about long before Christianity did. In order to make your statement even remotely true, you need to first eliminate the improvable and ignorant phrase, “anyone who has studied” , and then finish with “some superficial contrasts are all that separate Christianity from other religions such as Zoroastrianism or Islam among many others.”

Let me guess, you watched Zeitgeist and now you think you're an authority on the subject. Well, not only is Zeitgeist filled with lies, they are outright bald faced lies, with a good measure of half-truths thrown in. Check your sources:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hgX6w4U-2o

Not according to the Catholics pal … and by the way, they’re not exactly some obscure Christian sect – they’re kinda one of the big shots on the Christian scene. Works are extremely important and I know for a fact that even when a catholic dies they believe that their loved ones have to pray them into heaven. That ain’t grace alone pal. Let me guess – catholics are wrong right?? Which of the hundreds of Christian sects are wrong??? Let me guess – yours has it all figured out right?

Catholicism is a blending of paganism and Christianity. The pope, biblically, is a type of antichrist. So yes, they are wrong. I count them as Christians but many of them are probably not saved.

There is wide agreement in the Christian community on the fundementals, and one of those fundementals is salvation by grace. That is what the early church thought, and that is what the modern church thinks. Yes, there are sects(read: cults) out there, like Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7th Day adventalists and so forth who promote their own version of the gospel, but this doesn't speak to the core teachings of Jesus Christ which have never changed.

And if we're going to be debating Christianity, I'm going to use the bible to elaborate on some of my points. Just like if you asked me how to build a building I would show you the blueprints. It's really quite irrelevent to the discussion whether you believe the bible is true or not.

And who makes you an authority worthy of making that statement??? It most certainly is a religious system and the fact that you claim it is not is simply ridiculous. It may very well be the BIGGEST religious system in the world.

Some people may treat it that way, but that isn't the way it works. When you believe in Christ, you receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. That means that everyone who has been redeemed by Jesus Christ has the Spirit of God within them. That is a direct and personal relationship with God. You don't have to do anything except believe in God for this to happen. The relationship comes first. It's an experiential truth. There is no other religion that has anything even approximating this.

Completely improvable. Please point me to thousands who can vouch for this fact. Is there a list of names with sworn affidavits on a website somewhere? An impossible and ludicrous assertion followed by an even more ridiculous non-squitur: “If you know God exists, the logical thing is to get to know him.” Utterly illogical. First neither of us KNOWS without some measure of faith that God exists and even if we did, it does not follow suit that we should then “get to know him” or would even have the ability to do so. Some of us don’t like to rely on the scribblings of ancient half wits to find out what god was trying to say.

Go to youtube and type "christian testimonies"..you'll be there for many hours.

Correct. Just like you believe in an angry desert god because you want to. OR WAIT … are you implying that you don’t have free will?!?!? Are you telling me that you didn’t necessarily want to and possibly still don’t??? But rather feel like there is no other choice?!?!?! Is that what you’re saying?!?!?

Think hard before you answer this one. Your question was loaded … obviously so are mine.

The question I would ask is if it necessary to use so many punctuation marks? Geez. No, I didn't say any of that. You said you settled on deism so you could "stop worrying about all this bull shit" and that it gave you "piece of mind"..as if you just settled on whatever made you feel good, with no regard to truth. Correct me.

Jealousy is tantamount to envy and even if you won’t concede this truth, jealousy is still extremely human – not of god.
Exodus 22:5, Exodus 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 5:9

It isn't envy at all, you just don't understand the connotation, or the word being used. To be envious of something is to lust over something you don't have. That is sinful. There are two words for jealousy used in the bible, one for humans and one for God. The human word has connotations of a passionate, even sexual jealousy. The jealousy God is speaking about is different. and it is always in regard to idol worship. An example is, if you're a husband and your wife is flirting with another man, jealousy is the appropiate response; you are the only one she should be flirting with. This is the same reason why God said He is a jealous God, specifically in regard to idol worship.

No, not that good, but in my opinion, they’re far better than your ridiculous notions of talking snakes, burning bushes, floating people, violent gods, zombie deities, and silly book that reads more like The Brothers Grimm than spiritual guidance.

Read the stories man … it’s painfully clear the Bible is fabrication straight from very human minds.

So your idea that the Universe was supernaturally created is plausible but my idea of miracles is not?

Now, I left a couple of things out, specifically questions of Gods judgement and Gods foreknowledge. My idea is that I would like to narrow the debate so we are only discussing a couple of topics at a time. These are two possible subjects, otherwise we can find something else to talk about.

I would also like to remark that you're extremely evasive about your beliefs. What I've heard so far is..I don't need God, I don't care about him, he doesnt care about me, i dont even think about him, i dont have any thoughts or feelings about him..etc. You've offered me no good reasons for belief in deism, or why you're not just a glorified atheist. You've offered me no insight on your position, theologically or otherwise. I am not here to debate a black hole. I want to know exactly what you believe and why, and I am going to ask you questions about those beliefs. If you're not prepared to defend deism then I don't know what we're doing here.

[Cinjin]

Actually, blood cleansing, human sacrifice, baptism, virgin births, etc. etc. came about long before Christianity did. In order to make your statement even remotely true, you need to first eliminate the improvable and ignorant phrase, “anyone who has studied” , and then finish with “some superficial contrasts are all that separate Christianity from other religions such as Zoroastrianism or Islam among many others.”

Let me guess, you watched Zeitgeist and now you think you're an authority on the subject. Well, not only is Zeitgeist filled with lies, they are outright bald faced lies, with a good measure of half-truths thrown in. Check your sources:

Let me guess, you found out that Zeitgeist is mostly bull shit and you thought you could get an easy point by making it appear that I had ANYTHING to say about that silly movie. Don't put words in my mouth pal. I didn't say a goddamn word about Zeitgeist and therefore you have not refuted my point whatsoever.

Not according to the Catholics pal … and by the way, they’re not exactly some obscure Christian sect – they’re kinda one of the big shots on the Christian scene. Works are extremely important and I know for a fact that even when a catholic dies they believe that their loved ones have to pray them into heaven. That ain’t grace alone pal. Let me guess – catholics are wrong right?? Which of the hundreds of Christian sects are wrong??? Let me guess – yours has it all figured out right?

Catholicism is a blending of paganism and Christianity. The pope, biblically, is a type of antichrist. So yes, they are wrong. I count them as Christians but many of them are probably not saved.

There is wide agreement in the Christian community on the fundementals, and one of those fundementals is salvation by grace. That is what the early church thought, and that is what the modern church thinks. Yes, there are sects(read: cults) out there, like Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, 7th Day adventalists and so forth who promote their own version of the gospel, but this doesn't speak to the core teachings of Jesus Christ which have never changed.

What a shock. The Catholics, who number in the hundreds of millions, are wrong about their version of christianity and you of course are right. And then to say that "MANY are unsaved" is obviously just your own prejudice - much like a Muslim would tell you that you're a filthy infidel. There's no way you can know something like that. I think the Pope is no more right than you are, but your reasoning is ridiculous. All you have is a bunch of hocus pocus visions in your head, at least the catholic church has 1000+ years of doctrinal studies and the contradiction of the scriptures to back it up. I really just want to say, "Who the fuck are you?!" Also, you do realize that your high estimate of 2 Billion christians that jesus has currently on this planet goes way down when you discount nearly half of them as unsaved pagans.

And if we're going to be debating Christianity, I'm going to use the bible to elaborate on some of my points. Just like if you asked me how to build a building I would show you the blueprints. It's really quite irrelevent to the discussion whether you believe the bible is true or not.

Quote the Bible as much as you want - I sometimes quote it too. I will still mock you when you use it as proof of a claim that it itself makes!

And who makes you an authority worthy of making that statement??? It most certainly is a religious system and the fact that you claim it is not is simply ridiculous. It may very well be the BIGGEST religious system in the world.

Some people may treat it that way, but that isn't the way it works. When you believe in Christ, you receive the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God. That means that everyone who has been redeemed by Jesus Christ has the Spirit of God within them. That is a direct and personal relationship with God. You don't have to do anything except believe in God for this to happen. The relationship comes first. It's an experiential truth. There is no other religion that has anything even approximating this.

That isn't the way it works??? What does this entire paragraph have to do with the fact that Christianity is a religion, it is a worldwide system, and it is JUST LIKE every other religion in that it can't even come CLOSE to agreeing on it's varied and idiotic doctrines?!?
And by the way, for you to just say the words, "no it isn't" is not enough to make your non-point. Christianity isn't some magical experience in your head. It's a well-documented SYSTEM with rules and regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, policies and procedures. Your personal relationship with the lunacy in your own mind does NOT in any way refute my point.

Completely improvable. Please point me to thousands who can vouch for this fact. Is there a list of names with sworn affidavits on a website somewhere? An impossible and ludicrous assertion followed by an even more ridiculous non-sequitur: “If you know God exists, the logical thing is to get to know him.” Utterly illogical. First neither of us KNOWS without some measure of faith that God exists and even if we did, it does not follow suit that we should then “get to know him” or would even have the ability to do so. Some of us don’t like to rely on the scribblings of ancient half wits to find out what god was trying to say.

Go to youtube and type "christian testimonies"..you'll be there for many hours.

LOL. Come on Lucent. Please. A billion+ christians out there, and you think that a couple hundred people world wide, the majority of which are either lying or delusional, bolsters your point?? That is laughable man.

Correct. Just like you believe in an angry desert god because you want to. OR WAIT … are you implying that you don’t have free will?!?!? Are you telling me that you didn’t necessarily want to and possibly still don’t??? But rather feel like there is no other choice?!?!?! Is that what you’re saying?!?!?

Think hard before you answer this one. Your question was loaded … obviously so are mine.

The question I would ask is if it necessary to use so many punctuation marks? Geez. No, I didn't say any of that. You said you settled on deism so you could "stop worrying about all this bull shit" and that it gave you "piece of mind"..as if you just settled on whatever made you feel good, with no regard to truth. Correct me.

It is you who settled on what made you feel good, with no regard to truth. You "saw visions" and found a book that backed you up. If you had seen slightly different visions, you would be worshiping Allah and reading the Quran right now, because THAT would be the book that backed you up. You think, that because your Bible says it's truth that it is? You are wrong and you are wrong simply because I say so. I'm not going to be told that my choice is somehow less valid because some guy who sees visions dancing in his silly little brain thinks that I'm wrong.

Your implication is that I chose this because it has some great truth to it. I chose to label myself with deistic views because they DON'T claim any of that "truth" that you so desperately cling to. Yes, deism suits me, but primarily BECAUSE it does not offer me a phoney god who's far more human than deity.

Jealousy is tantamount to envy and even if you won’t concede this truth, jealousy is still extremely human – not of god.
Exodus 22:5, Exodus 34:14, Deuteronomy 4:24, Deuteronomy 6:15, Deuteronomy 5:9

It isn't envy at all, you just don't understand the connotation, or the word being used. To be envious of something is to lust over something you don't have. That is sinful. There are two words for jealousy used in the bible, one for humans and one for God. The human word has connotations of a passionate, even sexual jealousy. The jealousy God is speaking about is different. and it is always in regard to idol worship. An example is, if you're a husband and your wife is flirting with another man, jealousy is the appropiate response; you are the only one she should be flirting with. This is the same reason why God said He is a jealous God, specifically in regard to idol worship.

Christian apologetics.

No, not that good, but in my opinion, they’re far better than your ridiculous notions of talking snakes, burning bushes, floating people, violent gods, zombie deities, and silly book that reads more like The Brothers Grimm than spiritual guidance.

Read the stories man … it’s painfully clear the Bible is fabrication straight from very human minds.

So your idea that the Universe was supernaturally created is plausible but my idea of miracles is not?

First of all, you believe that the Universe was supernaturally created in 6 fucking days so your point here means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and my whole point is not the existence of God - it's the idiocy of the Bible, it's god and the fact that it should be painfully obvious to a grade schooler that it is a man made concoction.

Now, I left a couple of things out, specifically questions of Gods judgement and Gods foreknowledge. My idea is that I would like to narrow the debate so we are only discussing a couple of topics at a time. These are two possible subjects, otherwise we can find something else to talk about.

I would also like to remark that you're extremely evasive about your beliefs. What I've heard so far is..I don't need God, I don't care about him, he doesnt care about me, i dont even think about him, i dont have any thoughts or feelings about him..etc. You've offered me no good reasons for belief in deism, or why you're not just a glorified atheist. You've offered me no insight on your position, theologically or otherwise. I am not here to debate a black hole. I want to know exactly what you believe and why, and I am going to ask you questions about those beliefs. If you're not prepared to defend deism then I don't know what we're doing here.

I just can't seem to get it through your head can I ........I'll try again ........ I DON'T HAVE A RELIGION! I don't worship anyone, therefore the reasons I have offered you for my deistic views have to be adequate. I can't tell you something that does not exist. I told you why I'm a deist. The religions of the world are dishonest and make no sense because they clearly all come from a the hand of a human. I'm not being evasive, there's just nothing more to tell you, and by the way, comparing me to an atheist is a compliment. I didn't subscribe to Deism one day thinking, this sure gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that I've been looking for. God holding my hand, answering my silly prayers and leading me through life so that when I die I can feel all happy about it. ----- That's you, not me. I have no silly book of lies for evidence. Which in the end really says a lot about you and the rest of the sheep doesn't it. You claim to have all this faith, but in the end, you're always looking for evidence for other people's beliefs.

Guess who has the most faith out of the two of us?

You've got old books, and writings, a lot of myths, and heresay, visions and dreams, pastors and ministers and world wide system backing you up.

I've got nothing but a spec of faith.


Not only do you damn little faith, you have piles of "evidence" because you need it. You require it. It is an absolute must that your neat little belief system make sense and keep you feeling warm and fuzzy so you can face your own mortality. Where would you be if you were born before Christ showed up on the planet. You'd be a scared little boy, afraid of the dark. No evidence, no doctrines, no world wide system. You'd be fucked.

I only have a drop of faith and yet it clearly outweighs yours 1000x over.

[lucent]

Let me guess, you found out that Zeitgeist is mostly bull shit and you thought you could get an easy point by making it appear that I had ANYTHING to say about that silly movie. Don't put words in my mouth pal. I didn't say a goddamn word about Zeitgeist and therefore you have not refuted my point whatsoever.

You never proved your point so there was nothing to refute.

What a shock. The Catholics, who number in the hundreds of millions, are wrong about their version of christianity and you of course are right. And then to say that "MANY are unsaved" is obviously just your own prejudice - much like a Muslim would tell you that you're a filthy infidel. There's no way you can know something like that. I think the Pope is no more right than you are, but your reasoning is ridiculous. All you have is a bunch of hocus pocus visions in your head, at least the catholic church has 1000+ years of doctrinal studies and the contradiction of the scriptures to back it up. I really just want to say, "Who the fuck are you?!" Also, you do realize that your high estimate of 2 Billion christians that jesus has currently on this planet goes way down when you discount nearly half of them as unsaved pagans.

You seem to be under the impression that any interpretation of the bible is equally valid, as if the words don't actually mean anything. There may be disagreement as to eschetology, but the core beliefs of Christianity have been there since the church began. I have 2000 years of testimony from hundreds of theologians supporting my case. As far as catholics are concerned, do you have any idea what the inquisition was about? The catholics had outlawed every translations of the bible except the latin vulgate, which only they could read. So the people had to come to them to find out what was in the bible, and the church added whatever they liked..things such as indulgences, where people would give the church money to get a more favorable outcome for dead loved ones. Anyone who disagreed with them was put to death..millions of christians were slaughtered because they refused to worship a cookie.

Quote the Bible as much as you want - I sometimes quote it too. I will still mock you when you use it as proof of a claim that it itself makes!

So you're proud of being juvenile? How old are you?

That isn't the way it works??? What does this entire paragraph have to do with the fact that Christianity is a religion, it is a worldwide system, and it is JUST LIKE every other religion in that it can't even come CLOSE to agreeing on it's varied and idiotic doctrines?!?

The core teachings of Christianity have widespread agreement within the church. It is not a religious system, as in, do this 3 times every sunday and you're saved. It is at the core a personal relationship with God. It has nothing to do with going to church, and you don't have to go to church to be saved.

And by the way, for you to just say the words, "no it isn't" is not enough to make your non-point. Christianity isn't some magical experience in your head. It's a well-documented SYSTEM with rules and regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, policies and procedures. Your personal relationship with the lunacy in your own mind does NOT in any way refute my point.

You don't have a point, as you don't seem to know much of anything about theology. You are not saved by regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, polices and procedures. You are saved by faith in God.

LOL. Come on Lucent. Please. A billion+ christians out there, and you think that a couple hundred people world wide, the majority of which are either lying or delusional, bolsters your point?? That is laughable man.

You never had a point, because you never proved anything. I can easily prove my point by pointing to the innumerable testimonies on the internet from Christians who give the reasons they came to Christ. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of testimonies all over the internet.

It is you who settled on what made you feel good, with no regard to truth. You "saw visions" and found a book that backed you up. If you had seen slightly different visions, you would be worshiping Allah and reading the Quran right now, because THAT would be the book that backed you up. You think, that because your Bible says it's truth that it is? You are wrong and you are wrong simply because I say so. I'm not going to be told that my choice is somehow less valid because some guy who sees visions dancing in his silly little brain thinks that I'm wrong.

Enough is enough with the mocking, condescending, belittling attitude. Perhaps you could at least try to show some maturity here. If you want to have a debate, then let's keep it reasonable and free of ad homs.

Your implication is that I chose this because it has some great truth to it. I chose to label myself with deistic views because they DON'T claim any of that "truth" that you so desperately cling to. Yes, deism suits me, but primarily BECAUSE it does not offer me a phoney god who's far more human than deity.

Right, you "chose" deism, because it suits you. What kind of reasoning is that for a belief system? Don't you have any logical reasons for deism besides that you hate Christianity?

First of all, you believe that the Universe was supernaturally created in 6 fucking days so your point here means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and my whole point is not the existence of God - it's the idiocy of the Bible, it's god and the fact that it should be painfully obvious to a grade schooler that it is a man made concoction.

If a supernatural creation of the Universe is plausible, then so is a 6 day creation, or the miracles of the bible. Are you actually arguing that your supernatural miracle is more rational than mine?

I just can't seem to get it through your head can I ........I'll try again ........ I DON'T HAVE A RELIGION! I don't worship anyone, therefore the reasons I have offered you for my deistic views have to be adequate. I can't tell you something that does not exist. I told you why I'm a deist. The religions of the world are dishonest and make no sense because they clearly all come from a the hand of a human. I'm not being evasive, there's just nothing more to tell you, and by the way, comparing me to an atheist is a compliment. I didn't subscribe to Deism one day thinking, this sure gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that I've been looking for. God holding my hand, answering my silly prayers and leading me through life so that when I die I can feel all happy about it. ----- That's you, not me. I have no silly book of lies for evidence. Which in the end really says a lot about you and the rest of the sheep doesn't it. You claim to have all this faith, but in the end, you're always looking for evidence for other people's beliefs.

Again, you have offered nothing to suggest why Deism is true or why you have faith in a God that has never made himself known to the world, or what the point of believing in such a god is. Hating other religions isn't a reason. The god that you talk about may as well not exist, so why not just be an atheist?

Guess who has the most faith out of the two of us?

You've got old books, and writings, a lot of myths, and heresay, visions and dreams, pastors and ministers and world wide system backing you up.

I had faith in God without all that; I became a Christian because I know that is who God is.

I've got nothing but a spec of faith.

Faith in what? Your belief is that there is a God out there that doesnt know you, doesnt care about you, and does nothing for this world, and that you will probably die without knowing anything about him. What kind of faith is that? What exactly do you have faith in?

Not only do you damn little faith, you have piles of "evidence" because you need it. You require it. It is an absolute must that your neat little belief system make sense and keep you feeling warm and fuzzy so you can face your own mortality. Where would you be if you were born before Christ showed up on the planet. You'd be a scared little boy, afraid of the dark. No evidence, no doctrines, no world wide system. You'd be fucked.

I wasn't afraid of my mortality when I was an agnostic, nor when I was a theist, nor am I now. This is another stupid atheist meme that you seem to think makes a powerful argument.

I only have a drop of faith and yet it clearly outweighs yours 1000x over.

People who repeatedly declare their superiority to others are the ones who have an inferiority complex. All you've shown is that your full of hostility. What you have is an unreasoned, blind faith, that has no rationale behind it beyond "i hate religion".

[Cinjin]

You seem to be under the impression that any interpretation of the bible is equally valid, as if the words don't actually mean anything.

Yet another ridiculous statement. Every christian interprets the Bible how they please and validity is decided by the interpreter. If you find this to be untrue, than go talk to the Pope, cause I'm reasonably sure he believes his version is completely and totally valid. Your arrogance is off the god damn scale ---- for this entire post actually. but I'll get to that.

There may be disagreement as to eschetology, but the core beliefs of Christianity have been there since the church began. I have 2000 years of testimony from hundreds of theologians supporting my case. As far as catholics are concerned, do you have any idea what the inquisition was about? The catholics had outlawed every translations of the bible except the latin vulgate, which only they could read. So the people had to come to them to find out what was in the bible, and the church added whatever they liked..things such as indulgences, where people would give the church money to get a more favorable outcome for dead loved ones. Anyone who disagreed with them was put to death..millions of christians were slaughtered because they refused to worship a cookie.

If you're expecting me to defend Catholicism, than you have clearly missed the point.

Quote the Bible as much as you want - I sometimes quote it too. I will still mock you when you use it as proof of a claim that it itself makes!

So you're proud of being juvenile? How old are you?

I don't find it remotely juvenile to mock a person who's entire defense of his religion is most often summed up with this pic:

The core teachings of Christianity have widespread agreement within the church. It is not a religious system, as in, do this 3 times every sunday and you're saved. It is at the core a personal relationship with God. It has nothing to do with going to church, and you don't have to go to church to be saved.

For you to just say the words, "no it isn't" is not enough to make your non-point. Christianity isn't some magical experience in your head. It's a well-documented SYSTEM with rules and regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, policies and procedures. Your personal relationship with the lunacy in your own mind does NOT in any way refute my point.

You don't have a point, as you don't seem to know much of anything about theology. You are not saved by regulations, dogmas, hierarchies, polices and procedures. You are saved by faith in God.

So you don't attend church? You pay no offering? You take guidance from no minister? I'm not real sure why you're pretending that christianity is not a religious system just because you get saved by faith, but it's ludicrous. It's a religion pal and it's a system and just because you make the claim that it is not, does not make it true. It was a religion is Rome 2000 years ago and it is one now, and quite frankly this might actually be the stupidest most pointless argument I've ever had.
Oh and thank you Captain Obvious for schooling a former Baptist of 18 years on how salvation works. If only I had god talking to me in my head.

LOL. Come on Lucent. Please. A billion+ christians out there, and you think that a couple hundred people world wide, the majority of which are either lying or delusional, bolsters your point?? That is laughable man.

You never had a point, because you never proved anything. I can easily prove my point by pointing to the innumerable testimonies on the internet from Christians who give the reasons they came to Christ. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of testimonies all over the internet.

Wow, you can twist things around real conveniently can't you. Almost as good as Statler with this one. I never said there weren't thousands of testimonies of Christians on the web and you know it. My point was far more specific than just general testimonies, but I'm going to make you dig that up on your own, as I have indeed made a valid point, you just will never admit it.

It is you who settled on what made you feel good, with no regard to truth. You "saw visions" and found a book that backed you up. If you had seen slightly different visions, you would be worshiping Allah and reading the Quran right now, because THAT would be the book that backed you up. You think, that because your Bible says it's truth that it is? You are wrong and you are wrong simply because I say so. I'm not going to be told that my choice is somehow less valid because some guy who sees visions dancing in his silly little brain thinks that I'm wrong.

Enough is enough with the mocking, condescending, belittling attitude. Perhaps you could at least try to show some maturity here. If you want to have a debate, then let's keep it reasonable and free of ad homs.

Respect will be given when respect is earned and you sir have responded with nothing but an obtuse attitude and a general response of, "no it isn't, cause I said so" without offering any legitimate argument.

Your implication is that I chose this because it has some great truth to it. I chose to label myself with deistic views because they DON'T claim any of that "truth" that you so desperately cling to. Yes, deism suits me, but primarily BECAUSE it does not offer me a phoney god who's far more human than deity.

Right, you "chose" deism, because it suits you. What kind of reasoning is that for a belief system?

Who the hell are YOU to decide what is and is not the proper reasoning for choosing a belief system?? This is supreme arrogance. As if I have to have the ramblings of a bunch of dead tent dwellers to make my choices somehow valid to the likes of YOU.

Don't you have any logical reasons for deism besides that you hate Christianity?

You don't have one. Why should I have to offer you one?!? This thread was not started for me to defend the validity of Deism. You have attempted to turn it into that. I cannot defend the validity of something I cannot prove and have never tried to.
Besides, believing in God is inherently illogical, I choose to do so anyway. Unlike you, all I need is faith in the existence of God. Don't project your bullshit requirements of a deity on me. Whatever "logical" reasons you happen to believe you have for your faith are just going to be your own biased mental capacity.

First of all, you believe that the Universe was supernaturally created in 6 fucking days so your point here means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and my whole point is not the existence of God - it's the idiocy of the Bible, it's god and the fact that it should be painfully obvious to a grade schooler that it is a man made concoction.

If a supernatural creation of the Universe is plausible, then so is a 6 day creation, or the miracles of the bible. Are you actually arguing that your supernatural miracle is more rational than mine?

This might be your best twist of a phrase. Completely dishonest. SO I WILL CORRECT IT, so that it reads the way it was originally meant to be read.

So your idea that the Universe was supernaturally created is plausible but my idea of miracles is not?

First of all, you believe that the Universe was supernaturally created in 6 fucking days so your point here means ABSOLUTELY nothing, and my whole point is not the existence of God - it's the idiocy of the Bible, it's god and the fact that it should be painfully obvious to a grade-schooler that it is a man made concoction.

Clearly in this prior post of mine I was addressing the point that you TOO believe in the supernatural creation of the Universe and that we are not debating that point, but rather that the Bible itself and the story of the 6 day creation, talking snakes, and rib women is absurd and clearly a man made story. Obviously we both think that God created the universe, and it is I who does not HAVE a creation story. You know good and damn well that I wasn't just referring to the 6 days of creation, but rather the entire account in Genesis and the stupidity that follows for the remaining 65 books.

It's exceptionally dishonest to imply that I was somehow giving my creation more validity than yours. I was referring to the ridiculous stories attached to your creation rather than the actual creation itself and you know it. You're being blatantly obtuse with this twisted response.

I just can't seem to get it through your head can I ........I'll try again ........ I DON'T HAVE A RELIGION! I don't worship anyone, therefore the reasons I have offered you for my deistic views have to be adequate. I can't tell you something that does not exist. I told you why I'm a deist. The religions of the world are dishonest and make no sense because they clearly all come from a the hand of a human. I'm not being evasive, there's just nothing more to tell you, and by the way, comparing me to an atheist is a compliment. I didn't subscribe to Deism one day thinking, this sure gives me that warm fuzzy feeling that I've been looking for. God holding my hand, answering my silly prayers and leading me through life so that when I die I can feel all happy about it. ----- That's you, not me. I have no silly book of lies for evidence. Which in the end really says a lot about you and the rest of the sheep doesn't it. You claim to have all this faith, but in the end, you're always looking for evidence for other people's beliefs.

Again, you have offered nothing to suggest why Deism is true or why you have faith in a God that has never made himself known to the world, or what the point of believing in such a god is.

It's official. You're either blind or an idiot. I don't mean that as insult - you just clearly can't read. I DO NOT KNOW IF DEISM IS TRUE anymore than you know that Christianity is true. (yeah yeah, I know you believe it's true, but everyone here knows it's bullshit) I have no evidence to offer you. You truly have no idea what faith is because you keep demanding evidence and a reason. You are completely dishonest to yourself. You do understand the concept of faith right?

Anyway, it wouldn't matter if I offered you pile of evidence and an irrefutable reason for deism --- it would not be acceptable to you no matter what.
(I'll go ahead and get ready for your next post now - to answer the same damn question yet again. )

I wasn't afraid of my mortality when I was an agnostic, nor when I was a theist, nor am I now. This is another stupid atheist meme that you seem to think makes a powerful argument.

Don't it suck when the "bad guys" hit the nail on the head? Even if it's true (and I doubt it is) that you never feared death in any way, that says nothing about the majority of humanity. So STFU, your point is invalid as it only applies to you.

People who repeatedly declare their superiority to others are the ones who have an inferiority complex. All you've shown is that your full of hostility. What you have is an unreasoned, blind faith, that has no rationale behind it beyond "i hate religion".

People who repeatedly declare persons of opposing religions "full of hostility" are relying on tired cliche's in a futile attempt to win arguments. What you have is an illogical, irrational belief in a SYSTEM that was brought to you by the dreams and visions of your own delusional mind.

Since your bible is a myth, your faith has no more relevance than mine, and you are left offering apologetics for a multitude of contradictions, and explanations for ridiculous stories.

While I have nothing to prove and nothing to sell.

[lucent]

People who repeatedly declare persons of opposing religions "full of hostility"

Yet another ridiculous statement.
Your arrogance is off the god damn scale
but it's ludicrous
Oh and thank you Captain Obvious
nothing but an obtuse attitude
Who the hell are YOU to decide
This is supreme arrogance
As if I have to have the ramblings of a bunch of dead tent dwellers to make my choices somehow valid to the likes of YOU
Don't project your bullshit requirements
just going to be your own biased mental capacity
You're being blatantly obtuse with this twisted response
You're either blind or an idiot
but everyone here knows it's bullshit
dreams and visions of your own delusional mind
and explanations for ridiculous stories
So STFU

I said from the beginning I was interested in a debate free from acrimony. If all you have to offer is ad homs then I can get those from the forum at large. If you want to have a real debate, then turn off your hostility and we can choose a topic, and discuss that intellectually like adults. If you don't have that capacity, then I'm not really interested in wasting my time here.

[Cinjin]

Yet another ridiculous statement. Not Hostile - Fact.
Your arrogance is off the god damn scale Not Hostile - Fact.
but it's ludicrous Not Hostile - Fact.
Oh and thank you Captain Obvious Not Hostile - Sarcasm
nothing but an obtuse attitude Not Hostile - Fact.
Who the hell are YOU to decide Not Hostile - Legit Question.
This is supreme arrogance Not Hostile - reiteration of Fact
As if I have to have the ramblings of a bunch of dead tent dwellers to make my choices somehow valid to the likes of YOU Not remotely Hostile. At all.
Don't project your bullshit requirements Not Hostile - Opinion of your Beliefs.
just going to be your own biased mental capacity Not Hostile - Mildly Insulting
You're being blatantly obtuse with this twisted response Not Hostile - Fact
You're either blind or an idiot Not Hostile - see context
but everyone here knows it's bullshit Not remotely Hostile. Fact.
dreams and visions of your own delusional mind Not Hostile - Opinion
and explanations for ridiculous stories Not hostile - Fact
So STFU Not Hostile, Mildly insulting.

At best you have only two examples that could even be considered mildly insulting. VERY mildly.

I said from the beginning I was interested in a debate free from acrimony. If all you have to offer is ad homs then I can get those from the forum at large. If you want to have a real debate, then turn off your hostility and we can choose a topic, and discuss that intellectually like adults. If you don't have that capacity, then I'm not really interested in wasting my time here.

You're not offering me a debate, you're offering me an opinion and you're continually asking me questions I have already answered several times because I'm not giving you the answer that you feel I should be giving. This also was never meant to be a defense of Deism since I told you from the very first post that I have no interest in that. I will not change my attitude and I will not apologize for the extremely mild nature of my two insults. You need a thicker skin and a less arrogant attitude.

[lucent]

Yet another ridiculous statement. Not Hostile - Fact.
Your arrogance is off the god damn scale Not Hostile - Fact.
but it's ludicrous Not Hostile - Fact.
Oh and thank you Captain Obvious Not Hostile - Sarcasm
nothing but an obtuse attitude Not Hostile - Fact.
Who the hell are YOU to decide Not Hostile - Legit Question.
This is supreme arrogance Not Hostile - reiteration of Fact
As if I have to have the ramblings of a bunch of dead tent dwellers to make my choices somehow valid to the likes of YOU Not remotely Hostile. At all.
Don't project your bullshit requirements Not Hostile - Opinion of your Beliefs.
just going to be your own biased mental capacity Not Hostile - Mildly Insulting
You're being blatantly obtuse with this twisted response Not Hostile - Fact
You're either blind or an idiot Not Hostile - see context
but everyone here knows it's bullshit Not remotely Hostile. Fact.
dreams and visions of your own delusional mind Not Hostile - Opinion
and explanations for ridiculous stories Not hostile - Fact
So STFU Not Hostile, Mildly insulting.

At best you have only two examples that could even be considered mildly insulting. VERY mildly.

I said from the beginning I was interested in a debate free from acrimony. If all you have to offer is ad homs then I can get those from the forum at large. If you want to have a real debate, then turn off your hostility and we can choose a topic, and discuss that intellectually like adults. If you don't have that capacity, then I'm not really interested in wasting my time here.

You're not offering me a debate, you're offering me an opinion and you're continually asking me questions I have already answered several times because I'm not giving you the answer that you feel I should be giving. This also was never meant to be a defense of Deism since I told you from the very first post that I have no interest in that. I will not change my attitude and I will not apologize for the extremely mild nature of my two insults. You need a thicker skin and a less arrogant attitude.

The thread is entitled Atheism, Christianity, and Deism. I expected a formal debate on our differing beliefs. If your belief is off limits then we don't really have anything to talk about.

[Cinjin]

The thread is entitled Atheism, Christianity, and Deism. I expected a formal debate on our differing beliefs. If your belief is off limits then we don't really have anything to talk about.

How can you say that Deism was "off limits" ?? I talked to you about it in depth. I answered your questions several times over. There simply was nothing more to tell you and you refused to accept my answers.

[lucent]

The thread is entitled Atheism, Christianity, and Deism. I expected a formal debate on our differing beliefs. If your belief is off limits then we don't really have anything to talk about.

How can you say that Deism was "off limits" ?? I talked to you about it in depth. I answered your questions several times over. There simply was nothing more to tell you and you refused to accept my answers.

You just said you're not prepared to defend Deism, didn't you? I haven't even gotten to my real argument, I have just been trying to figure out what you actually believe, because different Deists believe different things.

And the answers you gave me have all been fairly evasive..from what I have gleaned..Deism is an illogical belief that you embrace because you like having a tiny bit of faith and you really don't care about God and he doesnt care about you, and none of it really matters anyway. Did I miss anything?

[Cinjin]

The thread is entitled Atheism, Christianity, and Deism. I expected a formal debate on our differing beliefs. If your belief is off limits then we don't really have anything to talk about.

How can you say that Deism was "off limits" ?? I talked to you about it in depth. I answered your questions several times over. There simply was nothing more to tell you and you refused to accept my answers.

You just said you're not prepared to defend Deism, didn't you? I haven't even gotten to my real argument, I have just been trying to figure out what you actually believe, because different Deists believe different things.

And the answers you gave me have all been fairly evasive..from what I have gleaned..Deism is an illogical belief that you embrace because you like having a tiny bit of faith and you really don't care about God and he doesnt care about you, and none of it really matters anyway. Did I miss anything?

Nope not a damn thing ... So why do you keep ASKING?!?!

Once again for the 4th or 5th time (give or take), I don't defend Deism because I just don't care and there is NO evidence ... just like there is none for Christianity.


hmmm.... maybe you can never understand me. Your religion is a huge part of your life. My belief in God is an afterthought. You love god because you think he loves you. You've gotta stop projecting your reasoning for your god onto me. I worship no one. I pray to no one. And unlike you ... I NEED NO EVIDENCE!


(by the way, telling me that I'm evasive is just so untrue. I could not BE more forthcoming about my views on God)