If God has even one percent of the power he is meant to have, he could have swayed a vote of 9 people, no? He only needed to swing one single person. But he didn't. So he either can't, or was happy with the decision. If God "doesn't interfere" then stop pretending that he ever does.

I know fuck all about the law, I'll readily admit that. But I found it ludicrous to think that the law simply couldn't handle allowing same sex marriage without screwing up loads of other stuff. If the law was that fragile and useless, I don't know how any changes in it would ever get made.

But yeah, we were right. Even thickos like me. It can be done. It has been done. People can say they know more than the Supreme Court if they want, but there's no point bullying a know-nothing like me to prove that point. Go take it up with them! It's the law now. It's also the obviously correct choice for anyone who isn't in the business of discriminating against gays.

I'm sorry some people see gays as an underclass. It must be a hateful existence to carry around that kind of vitriol. I don't know where it comes from, I can only think:

-Fear
-Being gay yourself and feeling the need to "prove otherwise" by hating gays
-Religious/bigoted brainwashing

These other "arguments" are really weak justifications and I don't believe anyone would hold such hideous opinions about gays based on them. I feel not the slightest hint of any of this hatred towards gays. That doesn't mean I'm gay, although I wouldn't care if I was. They are simply people. These homophobes would feel much better if they would let this hate go, I'm sure. It can't be healthy. The idea of two people of the same gender in love is as beautiful to me as two of the opposite gender. The differences are inconsequential.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: I know that you understand which definition of the word prediction I used in my statement.  I suppose these childish antics and rants are to be expected from a couple of loser bookends like you and your attorney-impersonating buddy.

I believe the point Ace was making is the fact that your prediction happened to be right is mere coincidence. For what it is worth my uncle who did not graduate from elementary school and has no idea how the law works predicted same sex marriage would turn out this way because, "The queers have Hollywood and people are such sheep they let others who fake shit for a living decide for them". He predicted the outcome based on a line of reasoning. Does that mean he has a better understanding of Hollywood and social dynamics of sheeple?

I think there is a term for this which I am sure someone may help me out with. What is it called when you have an idea of how something is going to turn out (say your grandmother dying) and then the event occurs (she dies) which leads you to believe you had knowledge before the fact allowing you to predict the outcome, while ignoring all the other times that prediction was wrong?

I confess I do not expect one who did not even know how the constitutional amendments which granted her entire race of people freedom, citizenship, and rights require State ratification to be well versed in legal knowledge or to have studied constitutional law. I am confident I have exhibited sufficient knowledge of law to show I have studied it. Now you may not believe such (shocker!! An atheist that does not believe), but as I have written in many times by now... Your belief (or mine for that matter) does not define the reality of the situation. So I suggest you study the law or at minimum stay of any legal forums or message boards lest you remove doubt of your legal ignorance.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote:  It's apparent you both harbor religious and/or personal objections to same-sex marriage that you relentlessly try present as a legitimate legal arguments. Both you and Anime appear to be highly offended that the majority of Americans do not share your view, and you both are seemingly sick with rage in regards to the Supreme Court ruling.

Why is that? Because you honestly believe that every American should be subjected to the laws of your particular God?  Or do you think that US citizens should be denied basic rights simply because you think being gay is gross and icky? Why can't you understand that no one gives a shit about your nonsense religious beliefs or what personally disgusts you?

I may not speak for Ace. But you are correct in that I have objections. You are also correct in that some of those objections are theological. You are mistaken in believing my objections are solely theological as I also have biological, sociological, and teleological objections. To date I have not discussed my theological objections in the slightest, but have sought answers in regards to the biological, sociological, and teleological objections. I have yet to receive any logical response to them which are not fallacies of false equivalency, appeals to novelty, appeals to pity, or appeals to popularity.

For you to argue the majority of Americans do not share my view is rather hilarious. As the majority of Americans do not share your atheist view. So if I am wrong in being opposed to homosexuality because the majority is not are you wrong in being opposed to Christianity when the majority of Americans are not? Or may we say there is a reason for your objections which you perceive as valid in those objections? (Please refrain from the reflexive response of religion is imaginary bullshit because the same reflexive response may be returned to you in kind.)

As I said. You are right that I have objections to the adoption of an argument which results in a metaphysical and physical harm to people and society as a whole that is entirely based upon fallacious arguments. Call me crazy, but I think there should be some valid reason for changing things. I hoped various persons here could provide a valid reason. I have yet to receive a single argument in their favor that is not predicated on a fallacy. Instead I have received numerous ad hominem attacks to which I respond a la Shylock, "Until you can rail the seal from off my bond you do but offend your lungs to speak thus."

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Why is that? Because you honestly believe that every American should be subjected to the laws of your particular God?  Or do you think that US citizens should be denied basic rights simply because you think being gay is gross and icky? Why can't you understand that no one gives a shit about your nonsense religious beliefs or what personally disgusts you?
Those are all rhetorical questions by the way, because there's no point in going back and forth about this. Same-sex marriage is a done deal and there's not a goddamn thing bigoted assholes can do about it. And that's a reason to smile!
                                                             THE END

It is because I think Laws should be determined free from passion and in accordance with reason that best serves the majority of the population. To do otherwise is to subject the laws of the nation to the whims of some small minority. You know the single religious nut on the corner who is being oppressed because society is not recognizing the truth of what he has to say.

Does everyone honestly believe it is a done deal? Do each of you honestly think that every one who disagrees is first a bigot and second even if only bigots has no recourse but to submit? In a nation with state mottos such a free or die you believe that? Hmm... Ok.

(July 23, 2015 at 4:44 am)robvalue Wrote: I know fuck all about the law, I'll readily admit that. But I found it ludicrous to think that the law simply couldn't handle allowing same sex marriage without screwing up loads of other stuff. If the law was that fragile and useless, I don't know how any changes in it would ever get made.

Changes are not made as commonly as one believes. Unfortunately those who are so happy about Obergefell V. Hodges will stop paying attention to the repercussions of the ruling. So they will go on feeling the ruling did not hurt anyone or cause tons of problem in the law (beyond the occassional news article they may see). Those of us studying and practice law will have to try and workout all of the issues created by the ruling. If we cannot the Supreme Court will have to overturn the ruling as it has had to do on numerous occassions.

(July 23, 2015 at 4:44 am)robvalue Wrote: But yeah, we were right. Even thickos like me. It can be done. It has been done. People can say they know more than the Supreme Court if they want, but there's no point bullying a know-nothing like me to prove that point. Go take it up with them! It's the law now. It's also the obviously correct choice for anyone who isn't in the business of discriminating against gays.

Obviously? So you do have an argument in their favor that is not based on a fallacy? Well let's hear it!! I have been waiting for one.

(July 23, 2015 at 4:44 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm sorry some people see gays as an underclass. It must be a hateful existence to carry around that kind of vitriol. I don't know where it comes from, I can only think:

-Fear
-Being gay yourself and feeling the need to "prove otherwise" by hating gays
-Religious/bigoted brainwashing

Ha ha!! So then are you equally sorry for the hateful exists you have in carrying around all that vitriol against theists? Does it come from fear, being theist yourself, or social brainwashing?

(July 23, 2015 at 4:44 am)robvalue Wrote: These other "arguments" are really weak justifications and I don't believe anyone would hold such hideous opinions about gays based on them. I feel not the slightest hint of any of this hatred towards gays. That doesn't mean I'm gay, although I wouldn't care if I was. They are simply people. These homophobes would feel much better if they would let this hate go, I'm sure. It can't be healthy. The idea of two people of the same gender in love is as beautiful to me as two of the opposite gender. The differences are inconsequential.

To paraphrase Thena:

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Why is that? Because you honestly believe that every American should be subjected to the laws of your particular (God)?  Or do you think that US citizens should be granted (denied) basic rights simply because you think being gay is not gross and icky? Why can't you understand that no one gives a shit about your nonsense (religious) beliefs or what personally disgusts you?

Ha ha.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: I know that you understand which definition of the word prediction I used in my statement.

I was unaware of another definition of word prediction.
Prediction is considered:  - A statement made about the future
                          -An act of saying what will or might happen in the future
Wikipedia “(Latin præ-, "before," and dicere, "to say") or forecast is a statement about the way things will   happen in the future . . .. . . the act of predicting (. . .about the future)

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: I suppose these childish antics and rants are to be expected from a couple of loser bookends like you and your attorney-impersonating buddy.

So you are mad because we read book’s??  Hmm? ok

As for my “buddy,” ok i guess.

I don’t consider someone my friend because I am talking with them on a damn atheist board. (No offences Anima) . But if that how you makes people friends, ok.

I was only replaying to the funny comment that you made about prediction in correlation to knowledge. And yes I responded “childishly” because it was a childish connect that was made of the two concepts.
 
What you and Anima were arguing about, I really do not know. I have to relook at the post to see what it was.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote:  It's apparent you both harbor religious and/or personal objections to same-sex marriage that you relentlessly try present as a legitimate legal arguments.

HAHAHAH . . .Its funny how people in this country are so scared and oppose to objection, decent, or disagreement and to do so (actually) has shit to do with religion or own personal ideas.

Some people just like to oppose shit. Like I said,  I am not much into jerking other people off when I have my self to  think about.

And, I did not say shit about religious shit.

Umm We were talking about the issue legally because the right to same sex is a legal issue. That is why it was in the courts and heard by the supreme court.

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all.” -- Noam Chomsky

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Both you and Anime appear to be highly offended that the majority of Americans do not share your view, and you both are seemingly sick with rage in regards to the Supreme Court ruling.

Offended, sick with rage, hmm ok.
Hahaha yea and I am laughing happily, not care for the rocks in the sand,  

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Why is that? Because you honestly believe that every American should be subjected to the laws of your particular God?  

I did not say shit about god, but ok.

Hahah,  no I am for equality, I am not just thinking my god but all gods, magicians, and force lovers are to be welcomed to subjugate  people to their  powers  . . . . .ohhhhhhh . . . .

Now I personal find deciding between the Sith and the Jedi a little hard because the Sith have some of the most the shit ass powers. But I really have an issue with killing innocents.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Or do you think that US citizens should be denied basic rights simply because you think being gay is gross and icky?

Never said that one should be denied any basic rights.However marriage is not a right and the court did not rule on anything of the “Right to Marry”. That is what the court ruled,  NOT ME.

Here I do agree with Anima, if one were to read the ruling, you would see what I mean.

In addition, marriage is still under contract law, if it is a fundamental right the why is it still a contract in which the “right” to be taken away because a contract can be dissolved.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Why can't you understand that no one gives a shit about your nonsense religious beliefs or what personally disgusts you?

And why can I not make the same clam about your own ideas and religious beliefs?

That you speak for all sounds a little dictatorial,  But would not you statement irrelevant if people are engaging in the discussion?

Relax this is a discussion board, not the pulpit to the UN. It has not power to change the world.

“I live in America. I have the right to write whatever I want. And it's equaled by another right just as powerful: the right not to read it. Freedom of speech includes the freedom to offend people.” -Brad Thor

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Those are all rhetorical questions by the way, because there's no point in going back and forth about this.

Hey, now that is being a little childish of you. If want to fling mud that is fine with me, but don’t be a hypocritical puss were only you want to fling shit and get nothing fling back at you. You what to throw shit then expect shit to thrown back at you.

(July 22, 2015 at 10:59 pm)Thena323 Wrote: Same-sex marriage is a done deal and there's not a goddamn thing bigoted assholes can do about it. And that's a reason to smile!
                                                             THE END

Yea it is the “law,” but  the law  does not in any way make the issue a done deal. Or prevent anyone from wanting to talk about it. Truly, the gay community is crazy to even think this issue is over, far from it.
Hell there is still court cases pending on the issue. Clerks are refusing to  give marriage certificates, cake makers are still refusing to bake, government benefits that have not been issue to all same sex marriages. People arguing their religious right so as not to comply with the law and states are passing religious law to protect the religious. No this is in no way over, just like the laws on:

The Death penalty
Race
Abortion
Drug laws
Immigration laws
Discrimination laws. . . .   And a Whole lot more.

But let me take you argument and say you are right, the law has been set, so move one and stop taking about it. Ok, but I will be forced to call hypocrisy on you because the gay community is not even practices what the are preach it. Now this topics are being fought for. These topics that already have set law in place:

- Employment Discrimination Law’s:made and set (so get over it and stop bitching that you have no protection at work. McDonnell's  is always hiring)
- Housing Law’s: made and set (so get over it, stop bitching and look for a gay friendly neighborhood)
- Adoption law’s: are made and set (so get over it, stop bitching, and live it. Or take a look at the black market.)
- Insurances company law’s:  made and set (so stop bitching about not being able to clam your partner and get your ass on government access)

I think you can see where I am going. . . .

Never forget laws are always being created, changed, and done away with. No Law is completely a done deal and yes they can changed by people who are still part of this country, (the assholes).

(July 23, 2015 at 12:54 pm)Ace Wrote: But let me take you argument and say you are right, the law has been set, so move one and stop taking about it. Ok, but I will be forced to call hypocrisy on you because the gay community is not even practices what the are preach it. Now this topics are being fought for. These topics that already have set law in place:

- Employment Discrimination Law’s:made and set (so get over it and stop bitching that you have no protection at work. McDonnell's  is always hiring)
- Housing Law’s: made and set (so get over it, stop bitching and look for a gay friendly neighborhood)
- Adoption law’s: are made and set (so get over it, stop bitching, and live it. Or take a look at the black market.)
- Insurances company law’s:  made and set (so stop bitching about not being able to clam your partner and get your ass on government access)

I think you can see where I am going. . . .

Never forget laws are always being created, changed, and done away with. No Law is completely a done deal and yes they can changed by people who are still part of this country, (the assholes).

Ha ha. Well put.

(July 23, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Anima Wrote: McDonnell's  is always hiring

That's a neat trick since Boeing absorbed McDonnell Douglas in the late 90s.

The idea that one day the law will allow homosexuals to be fucked over the way they have been is a fanciful dream. One reason is the trend in public opinion. From Gallup:



Another reason already discussed is the fact that it will have to pass strict scrutiny. Yet another reason is the fact that it would be a very thinly veiled attempt of pushing a religious prohibition where the prohibition by practice no longer exists. There won't be another opportunity to argue the silly procreative centric state interest bullshit again.

Your enthusiasm for your chances remind me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCFB2akLh4s

(July 23, 2015 at 5:57 pm)Cato Wrote:

(July 23, 2015 at 1:09 pm)Anima Wrote: McDonnell's  is always hiring

That's a neat trick since Boeing absorbed McDonnell Douglas in the late 90s.

The idea that one day the law will allow homosexuals to be fucked over the way they have been is a fanciful dream. One reason is the trend in public opinion. From Gallup:



Another reason already discussed is the fact that it will have to pass strict scrutiny. Yet another reason is the fact that it would be a very thinly veiled attempt of pushing a religious prohibition where the prohibition by practice no longer exists. There won't be another opportunity to argue the silly procreative centric state interest bullshit again.

Your enthusiasm for your chances remind me of this:

I may be wrong but, I think that you completely and seriously misread and miss understood the last of section of my argument. I am saying that [i]the argument that Thena323[/i] made about the laws passed are set in stone, making any discussion of it irreverent and to move on, is a critical and erroneous argument to make.

I said,  if this argument were to taken, [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b], then any current legal issue that the homosexuals communities  are addressing to further their rights, ( Employment Laws, Housing Laws, Adoption Laws, and Insurance Company law) should be left alone. So no one are to fight these current legal issue, that were just mentioned, because the law that is in currently in place is set, (a done deal). Nothing can change it, (there’s not a goddamn thing bigoted assholes can do about it) so to even discuss the issue is irrelevant for anyone. Again this is [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b]

I am saying  that NO LAW is ever a done deal (set in stone) and any law that is made about any issue does not make it any more or less permissible for anyone to talk about any law.  

"Never forget laws are always being created, changed, and done away with. No Law is completely a done deal and yes they can changed by people who are still part of this country, (even the assholes)."

(July 23, 2015 at 5:57 pm)Cato Wrote: Another reason already discussed is the fact that it will have to pass strict scrutiny.

In you regards to your comment on passing strict scrutiny to deny a right, as it was said before, it is not bestow to Homosexuals because Homosexuality is NOT listed as a protected class. Only those that are listed as a protected class does strict scrutiny apply to . However, the funny thing is, religion listed is a protected class.

(July 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm)Ace Wrote: I am saying  that NO LAW is ever a done deal (set in stone) and any law that is made about any issue does not make it any more or less permissible for anyone to talk about any law.  

I posted the Dumb and Dumber clip as a joke, not a motivational video. Jesus fuck.

(July 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm)Ace Wrote:

(July 23, 2015 at 5:57 pm)Cato Wrote: That's a neat trick since Boeing absorbed McDonnell Douglas in the late 90s.

The idea that one day the law will allow homosexuals to be fucked over the way they have been is a fanciful dream. One reason is the trend in public opinion. From Gallup:



Another reason already discussed is the fact that it will have to pass strict scrutiny. Yet another reason is the fact that it would be a very thinly veiled attempt of pushing a religious prohibition where the prohibition by practice no longer exists. There won't be another opportunity to argue the silly procreative centric state interest bullshit again.

Your enthusiasm for your chances remind me of this:

I may be wrong but,  I think that you completely and seriously misread and miss understood the last of section of my argument. I am saying that [i]the argument that Thena323[/i] made about the laws passed are set in stone, making any discussion of it irreverent and to move on, is a critical and erroneous argument to make.

I said,  if this argument were to taken, [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b], then any current legal issue that the homosexuals communities  are addressing to further their rights, ( Employment Laws, Housing Laws, Adoption Laws, and Insurance Company law) should be left alone. So no one are to fight these current legal issue, that were just mentioned, because the law that is in currently in place is set, (a done deal). Nothing can change it, (there’s not a goddamn thing bigoted assholes can do about it) so to even discuss the issue is irrelevant for anyone. Again this is [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b]

I am saying  that NO LAW is ever a done deal (set in stone) and any law that is made about any issue does not make it any more or less permissible for anyone to talk about any law.  

"Never forget laws are always being created, changed, and done away with. No Law is completely a done deal and yes they can changed by people who are still part of this country, (even the assholes)."

(July 23, 2015 at 5:57 pm)Cato Wrote: Another reason already discussed is the fact that it will have to pass strict scrutiny.

In you regards to your comment on passing strict scrutiny to deny a right, as it was said before, it is  not bestow to Homosexuals because Homosexuality is NOT listed as a protected class. Only those that are listed as a protected class does strict scrutiny apply to . However, the funny thing is, religion listed is a protected class.

(July 24, 2015 at 3:11 am)Thena323 Wrote:

(July 23, 2015 at 7:37 pm)Ace Wrote: I may be wrong but,  I think that you completely and seriously misread and miss understood the last of section of my argument. I am saying that [i]the argument that Thena323[/i] made about the laws passed are set in stone, making any discussion of it irreverent and to move on, is a critical and erroneous argument to make.

I said,  if this argument were to taken, [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b], then any current legal issue that the homosexuals communities  are addressing to further their rights, ( Employment Laws, Housing Laws, Adoption Laws, and Insurance Company law) should be left alone. So no one are to fight these current legal issue, that were just mentioned, because the law that is in currently in place is set, (a done deal). Nothing can change it, (there’s not a goddamn thing bigoted assholes can do about it) so to even discuss the issue is irrelevant for anyone. Again this is [b]Thena323 argument NOT MINE[/b]

I am saying  that NO LAW is ever a done deal (set in stone) and any law that is made about any issue does not make it any more or less permissible for anyone to talk about any law.  

"Never forget laws are always being created, changed, and done away with. No Law is completely a done deal and yes they can changed by people who are still part of this country, (even the assholes)."


In you regards to your comment on passing strict scrutiny to deny a right, as it was said before, it is  not bestow to Homosexuals because Homosexuality is NOT listed as a protected class. Only those that are listed as a protected class does strict scrutiny apply to . However, the funny thing is, religion listed is a protected


How polished!  Sneaking in a few words that I never said or even implied, along with the your standard bullshit and never ending word salad? Surely your able to defend your arguments with more than misrepresentations that that come dangerously close to being outright lies?  You have to pretty much count on people not reading most of your mindless prattling to get away with that. You're so boring and transparent.