(August 14, 2015 at 9:48 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure

I'm not asking for proof, I'm trying to understand why you would even consider it as the next explanation on the list. But you don't have to tell me, that's cool.

It seems I'm right, you've looked quite a lot into opponents of evolution. Have you spent a similar amount of time learning about it and viewing the evidence? I'm just interested, it's not an accusation.

Of course Rob, it wouldn't be logical to sit in a courtroom and listen to the prosecution and then plug your ears when the defense presents its case.  I listen to both sides of every thing.  That's why my bookshelf has apologists, neo-darwinists, atheist philosophers, etc.  Can't expand my knowledge if I close my mind.

(August 14, 2015 at 10:07 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(August 14, 2015 at 9:48 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure

I'm not asking for proof, I'm trying to understand why you would even consider it as the next explanation on the list. But you don't have to tell me, that's cool.

It seems I'm right, you've looked quite a lot into opponents of evolution. Have you spent a similar amount of time learning about it and viewing the evidence? I'm just interested, it's not an accusation.

Of course Rob, it wouldn't be logical to sit in a courtroom and listen to the prosecution and then plug your ears when the defense presents its case.  I listen to both sides of every thing.  That's why my bookshelf has apologists, neo-darwinists, atheist philosophers, etc.  Can't expand my knowledge if I close my mind.

KingPin for president!!

Look, I'm not leaving until everyone has complete faith in the religion of evolution. *Locks the door*

Just kidding

Thanks for the debate, I shall leave you alone. It's great to have such a respectful Christian to talk this through with As you know from my scepticism video I have no agenda with evolution, it wouldn't make any difference to me if it was proved wrong tomorrow.

Oh! Oh right. Yeah, sorry.

*Unlocks the door*

(August 14, 2015 at 10:04 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(August 14, 2015 at 9:48 am)Neimenovic Wrote: But yet you have no problem believing it to be true, while the slightest hole you can pick in the evolutionary theory discredits it in your mind. Do you see the double standard?

I will accept at face value the explanation of having faith for emotional reasons, and I wouldn't argue against that. But the moment you say you hold your beliefs out of rationality, I feel compelled to step in and beg to differ.

I understand that completely Vic and wouldn't argue that there may be a double standard.  I do hold a presupposition to my belief in God and I try to be objective in my skepticism.  The problem comes where I can say I find immense problems with evolution theory as origin of species, but I cannot offer a viable, testable alternative.  My means for explanation can only be labeled as supernatural.  I am working on your request Vic for my path to belief, but like I said, it's not a simple post and some areas cannot be empirically tested.

Well, I hope you take a look at the first link in the post I made prior to the one you quoted, because I find those immense problems with evolution to be an exaggeration, and demonstrably so.

But laying that aside, I'm glad to hear you're thing to answer my question. I'll post a thread on it so that more theists could answer. Looking forward to your explanation.

(August 14, 2015 at 10:14 am)robvalue Wrote: Look, I'm not leaving until everyone has complete faith in the religion of evolution. *Locks the door*

Just kidding

Thanks for the debate, I shall leave you alone. It's great to have such a respectful Christian to talk this through with As you know from my scepticism video I have no agenda with evolution, it wouldn't make any difference to me if it was proved wrong tomorrow.

Oh! Oh right. Yeah, sorry.

*Unlocks the door*

(August 14, 2015 at 9:45 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Also, regarding your objections to mathematical improbability......Probability only means anything when it is used to predict an event. After the event has happened, the probability of it is equal to 1.
That, and if you rewind anything far enough back you'll find it is statistically improbable.

That logic is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.  My point was the probability of a single beneficial mutation is small in itself but then further compounding that with needing multiple at the same time, and that number exceeds what mathematicians would consider "impossible".

(August 14, 2015 at 10:18 am)lkingpinl Wrote:

(August 14, 2015 at 9:45 am)Neimenovic Wrote: Also, regarding your objections to mathematical improbability......Probability only means anything when it is used to predict an event. After the event has happened, the probability of it is equal to 1.
That, and if you rewind anything far enough back you'll find it is statistically improbable.

That logic is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy.  My point was the probability of a single beneficial mutation is small in itself but then further compounding that with needing multiple at the same time, and that number exceeds what mathematicians would consider "impossible".

No, you misunderstand what I'm saying.

Before you roll the dice, the probability of rolling a 6 is 1 to 6. But after you've rolled a 6, the probability that you've rolled a 6 is 100%. That is just how probability works.

Again, more of an anecdote than anything else.

Cath, why is everyone diplomatic to kingpin but gave you a real hard time about all this stuff?
You know why? Because you're a female and pretty! (AND THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!) hehe

Stick around babe ...kingpin's got your back now ...If they start being arseholes, it'll just expose them for what they are!
Sure we're gonna make fun of religion, that's what we do ... Do you understand now that it's nothing personal against you or anyone else.
I'm sure kingpin knows that ...

catch...

(August 14, 2015 at 10:26 am)ignoramus Wrote: Cath, why is everyone diplomatic to kingpin but gave you a real hard time about all this stuff?
You know why? Because you're a female and pretty! (AND THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!)  hehe

Stick around babe ...kingpin's got your back now ...If they start being arseholes, it'll just expose them for what they are!
Sure we're gonna make fun of religion, that's what we do ... Do you understand now that it's nothing personal against you or anyone else.
I'm sure kingpin knows that ...

catch...

So funny you mention that iggy, CL and I noticed that same thing ourselves.  

I certainly have her back but she also does just fine standing on her own!  I make fun of religion too sometimes...... shhhhhhh......don't tell.

---

(August 14, 2015 at 10:14 am)robvalue Wrote: Look, I'm not leaving until everyone has complete faith in the religion of evolution. *Locks the door*

Just kidding

Thanks for the debate, I shall leave you alone. It's great to have such a respectful Christian to talk this through with As you know from my scepticism video I have no agenda with evolution, it wouldn't make any difference to me if it was proved wrong tomorrow.

Oh! Oh right. Yeah, sorry.

*Unlocks the door*

I encourage debate and thinking, but as it says in my signature, I contend that we can disagree without being disagreeable.

(August 14, 2015 at 10:26 am)ignoramus Wrote: Cath, why is everyone diplomatic to kingpin but gave you a real hard time about all this stuff?
You know why? Because you're a female and pretty! (AND THEY CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!) hehe

Speaking for myself only, I don't pull punches with anyone. I only get diplomatic around people with sharp objects and firearms