It is plain as can be that Hell is either a place or a condition of punishment. Let us address the condition.

Suppose for the moment that Catholic Lady is correct, ie, everyone has the opportunity to either accept or reject God, thus accepting or rejecting goodness and love.

Suppose a person comes before God and is offered the choice. This person, however, is an utter moral reprobate. He spits on infants. He pulls the wings off of flies. He tells the most outrageous lies and spreads the most scurrilous rumours for the sole purpose of causing pain. He thinks love is for dimwits and sops and that goodness is a state that only the slackminded could aspire to.

Clearly, this person is going to reject God and will thereafter exist in the condition called 'Hell'. But he isn't being punished. By rejecting God, he is precisely where he wishes to be. One might go so far as to say that he was always in Hell, since he lived his life rejecting God, but enjoyed doing it (if he didn't enjoy it, he would have changed).

Good people may be treated similarly. They approve of goodness and love, and so are highly likely to accept God.

So...how is the whole Heaven/Hell system one of rewards or punishments. If you accept God, you get to go on as before. If you reject God, you get to go on as before. It's a mug's game.

Boru

(August 31, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Mormons believe this, too.  That's why they do the baptism for the dead stuff.  They've been doing it since the 1840s, so I suspect your theologians are behind the times and Mormonism really is the One True Religion™ after all.

If I'm not mistaken, they posthumously raped Anne Frank that way.

Don't feel bad when the story changes.  The mormons are always getting telegrams from Planet Kolob....usually when they are about to get sued for violating anti-discrimination laws.

Hey, it took them 1,000 years to get rid of "Limbo."

(August 31, 2015 at 7:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: ... If you accept God, you get to go on as before.  If you reject God, you get to go on as before.  It's a mug's game.

(addressing the whole post. no point in copying the whole thing)

And to add to all of this, how can one miss what one never had?

(August 31, 2015 at 7:44 pm)IATIA Wrote:

(August 31, 2015 at 7:25 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I think it's hard for us to imagine because we are bound by time and space - things that I believe don't necessarily apply in an entirely different dimension that is the afterlife.

All fine and dandy, but forever is a long long long long long looooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

Time being the key word. 

We can't imagine living without the concept of time, but I believe that will be the case in a whole other dimension.

(August 31, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Hey, it took them 1,000 years to get rid of "Limbo."

Hey!

Oh wait...

Sorry, I misread that last bit.

(August 31, 2015 at 7:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: So...how is the whole Heaven/Hell system one of rewards or punishments.  If you accept God, you get to go on as before.  If you reject God, you get to go on as before.  It's a mug's game.

Boru

Reminds me of this:

(August 31, 2015 at 7:46 pm)abaris Wrote:

(August 31, 2015 at 7:43 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Mormons believe this, too.  That's why they do the baptism for the dead stuff.  They've been doing it since the 1840s, so I suspect your theologians are behind the times and Mormonism really is the One True Religion™ after all.

If I'm not mistaken, they posthumously raped Anne Frank that way.

Yup.

They "excuse" this sort of behavior by saying that they're not "making" people Mormon, it's more like "inviting them to a party."  Except they can't prove that the party exists and they want you to pay your bar bill before you even show up.  

We can also have our own fun:
http://alldeadmormonsarenowgay.com/

(Boyd K Packer, the most recent President and "Prophet" just died, BTW...)

(August 31, 2015 at 7:49 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Hey, it took them 1,000 years to get rid of "Limbo."

That had to bum out Chuck. Anyway, I remember when they did that and always wondered what happened to all the babies that were sent there?

(August 31, 2015 at 7:51 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: We can't imagine living without the concept of time, but I believe that will be the case in a whole other dimension.

Well, I do not believe time to be anything more than a human construct. IMHO, we are simply aware of possibilities. Once one has perused all the possibilities in heaven (each a thousand times over) then what? It will still boil down to forever is a long long long long loooooooooooooooog eternity.

(August 31, 2015 at 7:45 pm)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: It is plain as can be that Hell is either a place or a condition of punishment.  Let us address the condition.

Suppose for the moment that Catholic Lady is correct, ie, everyone has the opportunity to either accept or reject God, thus accepting or rejecting goodness and love.

Suppose a person comes before God and is offered the choice.  This person, however, is an utter moral reprobate.  He spits on infants.  He pulls the wings off of flies.  He tells the most outrageous lies and spreads the most scurrilous rumours for the sole purpose of causing pain.  He thinks love is for dimwits and sops and that goodness is a state that only the slackminded could aspire to.

Clearly, this person is going to reject God and will thereafter exist in the condition called 'Hell'.  But he isn't being punished.  By rejecting God, he is precisely where he wishes to be.  One might go so far as to say that he was always in Hell, since he lived his life rejecting God, but enjoyed doing it (if he didn't enjoy it, he would have changed).

Good people may be treated similarly.  They approve of goodness and love, and so are highly likely to accept God.

So...how is the whole Heaven/Hell system one of rewards or punishments.  If you accept God, you get to go on as before.  If you reject God, you get to go on as before.  It's a mug's game.

Boru

Here's what I think, and what has been explained to me. Since we were made to love and to be loved, existing completely devoid of that is a very miserable existence. Even if you are creating your own misery by refusing to humble yourself before it, you are still miserable. In this life you are able to distract yourself with money, or cars, or drugs, sex, etc... anything to fill the void. But when you don't have those things anymore, you're left alone with nothing but yourself and your feelings of hated. That's a whole other level of miserable, and that's Hell. 

And Boru, you hit the nail on the head. It is not meant to be about reward and punishment. That's why I always say that those Christians who act a certain way simply in order to be rewarded in Heaven, or in order to avoid Hell, are missing the whole point. God loves us and He wants us to be with Him because He loves us, not simply for "rewarding" purposes. We "go to" Hell not as a punishment from God, as the article says, but because we chose to be away from Him.