Most people here say that race doesn't exist biologically, and I agree - But I was thinking about how we classify non-Human species. Just think about it - Do Golden retrievers exist? What about German Shepherds? Are dog breeds fake? If so, why do we pay so much for breed dogs and confidently assert that certain breeds have X or Y characteristic, are more prone to Z or Q behavior and are smarter/dumber, etc.? Isn't this making a special pleading? We pretty much do this with lots of species. I don't understand how this works. We do the same with cats - Do Siamese cats exist? What about persians? 

And if the categorization we do with animals is valid, and the price we pay for them, the worth we attribute to certain breeds and our preferences for some breeds over others (basically "racism"), why do we make an exception for Humans? Are we special?

The short reply is that humans are not bred, but intermingle, whereas dogs are often bred in a controlled way. For a longer answer:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_breed

Quote:Do Golden retrievers exist?

My Goldens



say "yes."  And they would bite your ass if you said otherwise....after they stopped licking your face.

Quote:Most people here say that race doesn't exist biologically

Race does exist, though.  At least to the point where a coroner can look at a skull and note a probable 'racial' category of the deceased.  Bones are much deeper than skin color.

http://youtu.be/aCv10_WvGxo

Those are very nice dogs, Min.

BrokenQuill, I enjoyed watching the video, but if dog breeds are made up like Human breeds, why do some people comfortably say that dog breeds exist but not Humans?

(September 17, 2015 at 8:17 am)Dystopia Wrote: Those are very nice dogs, Min.

BrokenQuill, I enjoyed watching the video, but if dog breeds are made up like Human breeds, why do some people comfortably say that dog breeds exist but not Humans?

I considered this exact question a long time ago but didn't make a thread about it on this forum.

Would the Amish interbreeding and their resulting explosion in genetic health concerns be comparable to, for instance, hip dysplasia in German shepherds ?

(September 16, 2015 at 9:45 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

Quote:Most people here say that race doesn't exist biologically

Race does exist, though.  At least to the point where a coroner can look at a skull and note a probable 'racial' category of the deceased.  Bones are much deeper than skin color.

The crime drama Bones would be a bit different if Temperance couldn't tell you a good bit about a person just by looking at the bones. Though it's true that we can all intermingle just fine, and there are no greater or lesser races. Take someone from Russia, and put him in Saudi Arabia, and see how well he does. Or vice versa. It all depends on the location.

(September 17, 2015 at 10:40 am)vorlon13 Wrote: Would the Amish interbreeding and their resulting explosion in genetic health concerns be comparable to, for instance, hip dysplasia in German shepherds ?

In a very real sense, yes.  Although the reasons are different there is a conscious decision to limit breeding to a select pool and this does result in problems in the long term.

I actually lost Simba, who is the big blond boy in the photo to a genetic cancer back in June.  It's called hemangiosarcoma and the other breed which is highly susceptible to it is the German Shepherd.  Over 60% of Goldens die of some form of cancer and all Goldens in the US can be traced back to a single male.  I don't know about Shepherds except that they are also a fairly modern breed.

Whether the decision is made based on religion and/or xenophobia or because some breeder wants a particular "look" when you fuck around with evolution you generally get piss poor results.  "Intelligent" Design, my ass!

BTW, I have now adopted "Fred" to be "Tango's" new buddy... some day Fred may sit down next to Tango long enough to get a photo.  Bundle of energy that one.  He was just neutered and goes back to the vet for his follow-up today so we're hopeful he'll be cleared to swim which will give us a chance to tire him out a bit.