(October 17, 2015 at 6:13 am)Blondie Wrote: Thanks. What I was taught in school was completely different from what you said. I was taught in public school that the big bang theory is what created the universe and the Ice Age is what killed the dinosaurs. Then somewhere along the way men came.

Alex is just joking. He knows what the Big Bang is because he is a trained Physicist (some of us are scientists you know).

Also a meteorite finished off the dinosaurs and allowed mammals to fill the evolutionary niche left behind. It wasn't an ice age. If you are referring to the sun being blocked out because of all the debris in the sky as being an ice age, then that's not what scientists mean when they say an ice age. People refer to it as an impact winter (or nuclear winter if it's caused by all out nuclear warfare). An ice age is something else entirely.

(October 17, 2015 at 6:29 am)Blondie Wrote: Two Shay. Now since there is no experiment to prove the existence of God, where is the proof outside of human logic and excuses do non-theists have?

Because the existence of an immortal, omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent God would violate things that we know are demonstrably true.

For example the laws of thermodynamics.

Not to mention a meaningless concept once you start thinking it through.

(October 17, 2015 at 6:29 am)Blondie Wrote: Two Shay. Now since there is no experiment to prove the existence of God, where is the proof outside of human logic and excuses do non-theists have?

No need for proof. In fact - logically you can't prove a negative statement. Try proving that there are no fairies, or that Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist.

"What can be assessed without proof, can be dismissed without proof" - C. Hitchens

It's very simple - both theists and "non-theists" believe that material world exists (well most of them anyway). We ALL (except nut-jobs) agree on that. Now, theists and other idealists [edit] claim that there exists some - often a lot of - extra stuff on top of the material universe. It's this extra stuff that needs to be proven, because otherwise - we could multiply imaginary beings into infinity. As I said - try disproving existence fairies, FSM, Zeus, Chronos, gnomes, elves, griffins, dragons, Batman, Godzilla, aliens, ancient aliens, super-aliens... You get the point, I hope...

What you've basically told me, Blondie, is a story featuring God as a character. You haven't told me what it actually is. How can I distinguish it from a figment of your imagination? What is it made of? Where is it? How can you possibly know it's been wherever it is forever?

Each religion tells a different story starring the same character, also not telling me what the God actually is. So clearly they can't all be right, and no one has any credible evidence to find out which is right, if any.

(October 17, 2015 at 6:28 am)robvalue Wrote: Welcome Blondie

I'm afraid your definition fails to be meaningful once you say it's something we can't conceive of. Once you say that, any further information you give has been undermined as guesswork.

If we can't conceive of it, then anything we do conceive about it is wrong. We can't possibly have any idea if such a thing exists because we can't learn anything about it.

I don't much care if there is a "God" or not, whatever it may mean. What bothers me is when people claim to have lots of information about it that they can't possibly know.

Thanks  Robvalue.   I know it does. The human mind is limited to our senses. The Christian God, is a Being you have to experience for yourself. No one can provide evidence to proof or disprove. It is either you believe or you don't. Other than that, there is nothing.

The other problem is there are so  many ways to go. Then the question is what do I choose including atheism?

Just like Christians or Catholics have the burden to prove His existence, the atheists have the burden of proof of non-existence. Muslims worship a rock, Buddha a statue, and etc.

Between the Christians and the Muslims is Christians can say Jesus rose and Mohammad still lying in is tomb. Religion no matter what it is does get tailored, etc to suit the needs of society. That is  the other sad thing about it such as the Mormans saying Jesus married and Muslims justifying being a child pedophile.

How can I experience it if I can't conceive of it? How can I be aware that my experience is connected to something that is beyond my comprehension?

This sounds like you have an experience and you just decide it is God, and not just god but the Christian God. How are you coming to that conclusion?

(October 17, 2015 at 6:31 am)robvalue Wrote: Just fyi, it's touché

I didn't understand your sentence above, I don't know what you're asking.

Basically what proof do atheists have beyond human logic (i.e. impossible for something eternal) do atheists have that God doesn't exist?

(October 17, 2015 at 6:52 am)Blondie Wrote: The other problem is there are so  many ways to go. Then the question is what do I choose including atheism?

Just like Christians or Catholics have the burden to prove His existence, the atheists have the burden of proof of non-existence. Muslims worship a rock, Buddha a statue, and etc.

Between the Christians and the Muslims is Christians can say Jesus rose and Mohammad still lying in is tomb. Religion no matter what it is does get tailored, etc to suit the needs of society. That is  the other sad thing about it such as the Mormans saying Jesus married and Muslims justifying being a child pedophile.

Why do you have to believe anything? There is nothing wrong with shrugging your shoulders and saying I don't know.

We don't need to prove it doesn't exist. That's not how things work. By default, atheism isn't even claiming God doesn't exist, just that the evidence that shows it does exist is not yet convincing. I explain more about this here.

If someone makes a claim, it's up to them to provide the evidence. If they don't have any, the claim can be ignored. Otherwise we'd spend our whole lives trying to disprove every random thing any person presented to us.

To claim something exists simply because it can't be proved that it doesn't is a logical fallacy (error in thinking) that I explain in detail on my website here.

(October 17, 2015 at 6:52 am)Blondie Wrote: Just like Christians or Catholics have the burden to prove His existence, the atheists have the burden of proof of non-existence. Muslims worship a rock, Buddha a statue, and etc.

No, we don't. Earlier on I asked if christians subscribe to belief in fairies, unicorns, dragons or bigfoot. What about Zeus, Odin or Osiris? Most of you don't. You just suspend disblief for one single god of one síngle scripture. And we don't. For us, this god, any god, is on the same lines as the above. Stuff of legend and mythology, so we don't have to prove a negative.