(October 18, 2015 at 3:59 am)Blondie Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 3:11 am)Beccs Wrote: If you didn't care what we thought you wouldn't be herr pushing misinformation and creationist lies and propaganda.

Oh, I once heard a story of a Christian who sent an angel to try to convert an atheist.  But the angel returned to the Christian tellinf him not to send it to an atheist again because atheist logic overwhelms imaginary creatures

I really don't care after I have also seen the ignorance around here also. You are full of it on the Christian sent an angel to convert atheists.  Now I only repeated what I heard which I was not actually in the room to see it so therefore I can't say it is real no more than you can say that macro-evolution happened because neither me or you was not there to witness to the fact and the missing link that shows the relation of human and monkeys have never been found. 

Atheists do no know what the Bible says, but there is reasons why it is rejected such as a child dying.  Atheism is the excuse not to believe or hope of anything or it is just a pick and choose deal of what you are or what your not going to believe in. 

Sweetheart, every religion has those issues along with things in the New Age movement, etc.

You Christian yanks really are wacky aren't you?

Poor things.

So, blondie, you're going to sink lower than your lies by making a veiled threat to someone not to end up in a nursing home because they just might see you there?

In that case hope you don't require cardiac surgery. You might just end up on my table...

.......

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(October 18, 2015 at 6:30 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 3:24 am)Blondie Wrote: I just don't buy into just what people want to say in order to attempt to explain how we got here and maybe even why we are here.  Theories again are nothing more than educated ideas and thoughts made by different people over time.  Again theories are not science and not exact because it can never be observed.  People can be so erroneous in their guesses to lead everyone astray.  If I am lead astray it will be by Satan himself and not someone with a credential behind their name who says I have to believe this or that because they think it is a fact.  People have gave me more than enough reason not to trust or believe anything they say.  So why should I pay any attention to an educated idiot trying to shove their crap down my throat.  It goes the same with you.  You are tired and wore out by people like me shoving our beliefs down your throat.  If I don't like you do that to me, why would I expect you to be any different?  The same goes for the scientists who says this bull crap.

I am quoting you here, despite having just addressed your attitude toward science, because you are obviously an intelligent and well-read person (given your proper use of the English language, a rarity on the internet in general). You have some ideas about how science works that I find somewhat disturbing, and indicate to me that you have been the victim of some serious efforts at anti-science propaganda. My own church's attempts to insulate me from the teachings of science were my "trauma event", as you call it, which convinced me that the Christian beliefs were not ones I could in good conscience continue to follow; it was only later that I learned there were types of Christian who did not reject science and fear knowledge that could potentially conflict with belief. By then, it was too late to go back to believing; I had seen "the man behind the curtain", as Baum put it in the Wizard of Oz  books.

First, we'll start with your use of theory to mean "educated ideas". My recommendation is that you cease to use "educated" as a pejorative. That's never a good place to start with your concepts about the world. Your computer and your car are built by people who are educated in the mathematics of materials science and electrical/mechanical engineering, as well as the psychology of pleasing design and ergonomics. The medicines you take are the product of educated people doing careful research on the human body, its biochemistry and its systems. Education is a good thing, not a dirty word.

Theories are  science. In science, the word "theory" could be replaced with "model of"; in other words, when I say "Germ Theory", I mean the model of disease infecting our cells. A theory is comprised of all the observed laws which govern the behavior of the subject being modeled, and all the tested and verified information that shows how those laws operate together into a functioning system. If it helps you to think of it as "The Model of Gravity" rather than "Gravitational Theory", or the "Model of Evolution by Natural Selection", to avoid the sticking point you've developed with the use of the word "theory", I recommend that you do so. What's important to realize here is that in science, the word theory has a meaning that is wholly unrelated to the way it's used in police dramas on TV, or in colloquial use, to mean "guess" or "hunch". Theories are tested endlessly by scientists in many fields, all of whom are in competition with one another, and all of whom are encouraged to tear down any element of that model which is inaccurate or incorrect, even if they have no alternative with which to replace the error. Over time, this means the theories which survive become more robust, as they are more-heavily tested. Evolution is quite literally the most solid theory I can think to name, including the theory of gravity. We don't know everything, but we do know quite a lot, and what we do know is not the result of some guys sitting around in a room making wild guesses. Evolution is and has been observed in a dozen independent lines of evidence, in entirely-unrelated fields of study. If you are genuinely curious to know, I'd love to tell you about it.

No one wants to "shove it down your throat"; the beauty of science is that you can test for yourself. That's quite literally the definition of the Scientific Method's process of Peer Review-- anything which is to be added to the body of scientific knowledge must be tested and confirmed (or disproved) by others, in order to uncover errors in thinking or methods, false assumptions, and the bias of the individual human. If the results and conclusions are not supported by the attempts by others to duplicate what was done, they can attain great fame by proving what was wrong, just as much as the person who put out a new idea would attain fame via their discovery. If I proved evolution wrong tomorrow, with a testable and repeatable experiment that poked holes in everything we know today, then I would have a Nobel Prize waiting for me at the end of the year.

You can find out for yourself all the things I learned, and you can test them for yourself. What you cannot do is make assumptions based on limited knowledge, form conclusions based on ignorance of the facts, and wave away your disagreements with the educated people by declaring them to be guessing as much as you are.

Thank you for your compliment.  I don't dismiss science completely.  That would be out of complete ignorance.  Yes science and math have advanced to the way of life that we know it today.  I really do not have a problem with the big bang theory or evolution.  The only thing that I really disagree with on the evolution is that we all started with  a single celled organism that developed into everything we see today and that monkeys and humans come from a common ancestor.  There are some things that are too complex to have a start like that.  However, I do think that creatures, plants, and humans do adapt over time and the survival of the fittest. If you take an albino deer in the wild to live like all of the other deer, then that albino according to the survival of the fittest idea is not going to survive as long as the other deer with the normal colors because the albino is going to be spotted first by the predator in fall, spring, and summer in the places where the climate in the winter allows for snow fall.  Most people have 4 wisdom teeth.  I only had 3 wisdom teeth which means nature must have decided that I only needed 3 for whatever reason. Now if my children have no wisdom teeth than nature decided to rid of wisdom teeth lets say in my line. Natural selection is when there is no longer a need for a certain creature in the earth so it gets rid of that particular species.  I know God can't be proven nor can He be proven to not exist.  One question I do have is why can't God and science go hand in hand?  The creation story in the the Bible only says what He created and when He created it as far as day 1 or 2, etc goes. It never said how long the days were nor does it say how He did it.  Therefore He very well could have created it by what we know as the Big Bang theory or model.  

There is some science in the Bible such as bathing.  Circumcision for a male child is also in there.  I think the Jewish requirement was that the male child had to be 7 days old first.  It was just a custom back than, but today's science have let us know why we are to circumcise the male child, but it is the parents' decision to circumcise or not.  We know by knowledge that it is painful for them later and that the male is more susceptible to germs and infections if not done.

Leprosy which was common in the centuries noted as BC and early AD.  People knew that leprosy was contagious so the lepers had to be quarantined so the infection was not spread.  Now we know that this was a result of people not bathing regularly.  

The Bible is not a scientific book nor was it meant to be, but there are some scientific evidence today as to why they did some things in the early stages of time.

I don't have a problem using the word theory.  Some theories in science have been dismissed while others have been proven and still others need a whole lot more work such as the idea of the macro-evolution.  

It may not be too late to go back to believing.  I have even heard the question asked, "Can you believe in evolution and the God at the same time? " It is up to the individual to decide in my opinion which everyone as one.  

Quote:Natural selection is when there is no longer a need for a certain creature in the earth so it gets rid of that particular species.

No it isn't.
Google is your friend please look it up.

I don't think Blondie is lying, in the traditional sense of that word. Rather, I think she has been carefully misinformed by religious leaders she trusts as sources of reliable information. Because she trusts them to be honest, she thinks she is being honest when she presents stuff that appears to be deliberate lies to us. It's also why she won't usually check facts, except from within her pre-formed thought-group of "trusted sources". It has the effect of producing dishonest statements, but it's not deliberate intent to deceive. There's an important difference.

(October 18, 2015 at 7:27 am)Pandæmonium Wrote:

(October 16, 2015 at 4:33 pm)sinnerdaniel94 Wrote: no
I just want to know the evidence for the position that there is no god.

How many fucking times does it have to be explained to you?

You retarded bro?

I really thought some people had some actual intelligence on this site for an open discussion.  I should have known better than that given the site's name.  People on here are very closed-minded.  You don't want to except that someone has a different opinion than you do so you cast them off as retarded idiots.  There are very few well educated atheists, but others like to chase off anyone who does believe in God, but the same treatment is not given to someone who believes in a freaking spaghetti monster.  Seriously?  Has most people on this site have been dropped on their heads by their momma?  Can mankind really be this stupid?  

(October 18, 2015 at 7:35 am)Blondie Wrote: Thank you for your compliment.  I don't dismiss science completely.  That would be out of complete ignorance.  Yes science and math have advanced to the way of life that we know it today.  I really do not have a problem with the big bang theory or evolution.  The only thing that I really disagree with on the evolution is that we all started with  a single celled organism that developed into everything we see today and that monkeys and humans come from a common ancestor.  There are some things that are too complex to have a start like that.  However, I do think that creatures, plants, and humans do adapt over time and the survival of the fittest. If you take an albino deer in the wild to live like all of the other deer, then that albino according to the survival of the fittest idea is not going to survive as long as the other deer with the normal colors because the albino is going to be spotted first by the predator in fall, spring, and summer in the places where the climate in the winter allows for snow fall.  Most people have 4 wisdom teeth.  I only had 3 wisdom teeth which means nature must have decided that I only needed 3 for whatever reason. Now if my children have no wisdom teeth than nature decided to rid of wisdom teeth lets say in my line. Natural selection is when there is no longer a need for a certain creature in the earth so it gets rid of that particular species.  I know God can't be proven nor can He be proven to not exist.  One question I do have is why can't God and science go hand in hand?  The creation story in the the Bible only says what He created and when He created it as far as day 1 or 2, etc goes. It never said how long the days were nor does it say how He did it.  Therefore He very well could have created it by what we know as the Big Bang theory or model.  

There is some science in the Bible such as bathing.  Circumcision for a male child is also in there.  I think the Jewish requirement was that the male child had to be 7 days old first.  It was just a custom back than, but today's science have let us know why we are to circumcise the male child, but it is the parents' decision to circumcise or not.  We know by knowledge that it is painful for them later and that the male is more susceptible to germs and infections if not done.

Leprosy which was common in the centuries noted as BC and early AD.  People knew that leprosy was contagious so the lepers had to be quarantined so the infection was not spread.  Now we know that this was a result of people not bathing regularly.  

The Bible is not a scientific book nor was it meant to be, but there are some scientific evidence today as to why they did some things in the early stages of time.

I don't have a problem using the word theory.  Some theories in science have been dismissed while others have been proven and still others need a whole lot more work such as the idea of the macro-evolution.  

It may not be too late to go back to believing.  I have even heard the question asked, "Can you believe in evolution and the God at the same time? " It is up to the individual to decide in my opinion which everyone as one.  

It's no longer a matter of believing in evolution or rejecting faith; it was simply when I caught a church leader making up lies (or repeating them from others) about what science actually says, on the subject of biology, that I realized they may have lied to me about other things, and upon investigation I found a great deal wrong with my own faith-traditions, which I had never truly scrutinized the way we do other claims we stumble upon. Once I did, the traditions of Christianity were damaged beyond repair. It is possible I could one day find a god-concept worthy of belief, but it will most assuredly not be Christianity, or anything similar.

What you call "macro-evolution" is well-proved. The human-ape ancestry question is most heavily proved of all, following the discoveries in 1999 (and afterward, based on that database) Human Genome Project, which is why I pointed you to Dr. Collins' work. The process of adaptation of a population by natural selection to fit its environment is one of the ways in which evolution happens, but it's not all there is. Even your introduction to biology course should have told you that. 

There is zero serious debate over the question of whether we share a common ancestor with the other Great Apes, like chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas. It's in our DNA, specifically in "marker" regions and "scars" on our DNA which only are found in the same place in family lineages that share a common ancestor (say, you and your brother; or you, your brother, and your cousin), and the same markers on our inactive (non-environment-influenced) DNA tell us that we are related to those species by way of a great-great-grandparent roughly 7 million years ago. That's not counting overall similarity of DNA, or similarity of appearance, or any other factor... just the inheritable marker-regions.

And the circumcision thing is on day 8.

(October 18, 2015 at 7:48 am)Blondie Wrote:

(October 18, 2015 at 7:27 am)Pandæmonium Wrote: How many fucking times does it have to be explained to you?

You retarded bro?

I really thought some people had some actual intelligence on this site for an open discussion.  I should have known better than that given the site's name.  People on here are very closed-minded.  You don't want to except that someone has a different opinion than you do so you cast them off as retarded idiots.  There are very few well educated atheists, but others like to chase off anyone who does believe in God, but the same treatment is not given to someone who believes in a freaking spaghetti monster.  Seriously?  Has most people on this site have been dropped on their heads by their momma?  Can mankind really be this stupid?  

Respectfully, Blondie, you don't know our history with Daniel. He asks the same questions over and over, and disrespectfully ignores our replies, even when he makes blatantly incorrect statements about what we believe, and will repeat them anyway. He asks questions for no other purpose than to get us to respond, which we call "trolling" (a reference to dragging a baited line through the water to see what fish will bite, but which has become an internet term). While we do have some militant members who can be hostile and insulting without cause, please let me assure you that Danny-boy there has more than earned any opprobrium fired in his direction... even though it is 48 hours after-the-fact.

(October 18, 2015 at 7:48 am)Blondie Wrote: I really thought some people had some actual intelligence on this site for an open discussion. 

You've said this a few times but have not explained why you think that people here are stupid.

(October 18, 2015 at 7:48 am)Blondie Wrote: There are very few well educated atheists

There are many here more educated than you by a long shot. I myself have a BSc, MSc, PhD and two post-docs. I am currently working with biologists and am currently preparing to start a project predicting how flu will evolve. So next time you take your flu jab, be glad that some people do actually understand how evolution works even if you do not.

(October 18, 2015 at 7:48 am)Blondie Wrote: Has most people on this site have been dropped on their heads by their momma?  Can mankind really be this stupid?  

Have

Your poor grammar also throws doubt on the level of education that you claim to have attained. What did you study at university? If you are not mentally retarded then it is most likely that you are a child pretending to be an adult.

Where is the evidence that invisible pink snarfwidgets don't exist? A gibberish question you say? Good, I agree, now aim that logic at the OP.