(October 27, 2015 at 9:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 27, 2015 at 9:08 pm)Beccs Wrote: Fred?

Bob?

Jemima?

You too, as in your true self as opposed do the delusional made up darkness that dark forces want you to cling to and think is the true you. Purify yourself from attachment to falsehood, and you will see the truth is within you.

My true self is, for the most part, that which I present to others.

Yes, I have a dark side, but that comes from some of the things I've seen and experienced in life, which is why I have a somewhat dark sense of humour.

As for the truth: I found that when I gave up on religion.

(October 27, 2015 at 9:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote:

(October 27, 2015 at 9:14 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: There may once upon a time been a Messenger or Prophet or Guide called Gary. I don't know.  But he is not the Messenger for people today, and the sealing of revelation was through the Mohammad and the Guides after him were to safeguard it.

Suratal Fatiha coupled with Quran is unparalleled in any other religions words. So brief, so simple, yet the whole Quran elaborates it, and the whole Quran is in it, and it's the manifestation of the Mastership of the final chosen family.

Show me the book that proves itself by it's sublimity and superior nature and eloquence that assigns Gary as the best human, and then we can talk.

So....you're  a super huge fan of a particular book.  And?  Sorry man, I just didn't enjoy the quran.  It sucked.  Theres better fantasy in the YA aisle at my library.

Don't you find it odd that many people are unimpressed by the Quran (like I wasn't at one point) and then many people are bewildered by it, and find it more eloquent then anything in this world, and through out their lives appreciate more and more of it, only realizing they are just scratching the surface.

Perhaps here it's not an issue of it's quality, but rather our bias. Either believers are bias and exaggerating. Or those who don't believe it's superior nature don't for other reasons then it being not superior.

Difference of opinion and taste are fine as long as it's not done out willful hate towards the truth or not wanting to submit to the Lord of the worlds or not wanting to obey his chosen friends he has assigned for guidance and leadership of the world.

And not to discount the possibility of dark forces wanting us to misinterpret and misunderstand the Quran.

(October 27, 2015 at 9:39 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(October 27, 2015 at 9:18 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: You too, as in your true self as opposed do the delusional made up darkness that dark forces want you to cling to and think is the true you. Purify yourself from attachment to falsehood, and you will see the truth is within you.

My true self is, for the most part, that which I present to others.

Yes, I have a dark side, but that comes from some of the things I've seen and experienced in life, which is why I have a somewhat dark sense of humour.

As for the truth: I found that when I gave up on religion.

And what's the truth you found?

(October 27, 2015 at 9:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Don't you find it odd that many people are unimpressed by the Quran (like I wasn't at one point) and then many people are bewildered by it, and find it more eloquent then anything in this world, and through out their lives appreciate more and more of it, only realizing they are just scratching the surface.

No...I don't really find that odd.  It's not a very good book. 

Quote:Perhaps here it's not an issue of it's quality, but rather our bias. Either believers are bias and exaggerating. Or those who don't believe it's superior nature don't for other reasons then it being not superior.

Difference of opinion and taste are fine as long as it's not done out willful hate towards the truth or not wanting to submit to the Lord of the worlds or not wanting to obey his chosen friends he has assigned for guidance and leadership of the world.

And not to discount the possibility of dark forces wanting us to misinterpret and misunderstand the Quran.

I don't think that it takes any "dark forces" for me to decide whether or not I like a book.  I mean honestly.....they have to have something better to do with their time than to make me think what I'm perfectly capable of thinking on my own.  I didn't like Harry Potter either,  "dark forces" at work?  You tell me.....

That religion is ridiculous.

That it's contradictory.

That the books supposedly about a "good" god instead portray a thoroughly evil being.

That religious people have committed too much evil in the name of their deities for such a deity to exist.

That the lengths believers will go through to justify the evil their god supposedly did would win a gold medal at the mental gymnastics.

(October 27, 2015 at 9:57 pm)Beccs Wrote: That religion is ridiculous.

That it's contradictory.

That the books supposedly about a "good" god instead portray a thoroughly evil being.

That religious people have committed too much evil in the name of their deities for such a deity to exist.

That the lengths believers will go through to justify the evil their god supposedly did would win a gold medal at the mental gymnastics.

But how can that be truth you hold on to. I don't define the truth with what other people do.

What is praise? What is the value of human being and it's basis? What is your perpetual identity or are you not the same person you were once as a baby? What keeps going that makes you you? What is free-will? What is "You" and where does the "I" reside? How are your actions linked to you? Why do you appreciate or condemn others? What plan to you support for humanity and what movement do you think will make human beings the best they can be, that you will be a part of?

I'm not saying you have to answer these questions with religion or even believe in God.

But why define "the truth" with negative remarks about other people as opposed to positive realizations of yourself?

(October 27, 2015 at 9:43 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 27, 2015 at 9:37 pm)Rhythm Wrote: So....you're  a super huge fan of a particular book.  And?  Sorry man, I just didn't enjoy the quran.  It sucked.  Theres better fantasy in the YA aisle at my library.

Don't you find it odd that many people are unimpressed by the Quran (like I wasn't at one point) and then many people are bewildered by it, and find it more eloquent then anything in this world, and through out their lives appreciate more and more of it, only realizing they are just scratching the surface.

Perhaps here it's not an issue of it's quality, but rather our bias. Either believers are bias and exaggerating. Or those who don't believe it's superior nature don't force  other reasons then it being not superior.

Difference of opinion and taste are fine as long as it's not done out willful hate towards the truth or not wanting to submit to the Lord of the worlds or not wanting to obey his chosen friends he has assigned for guidance and leadership of the world.

And not to discount the possibility of dark forces wanting us to misinterpret and misunderstand the Quran.

Yeah, I can introduce some psychological concepts that show that believers may have bias, but where would the fun be in that? 
Ever read like half of a great book and stop reading it completely? 
Hard right? 
You gain a feeling of investing your energy and resources into this, and since you have already done it once you are more likely to do it again. I will explain it in Gory Hot Air Balloon Analogies. 
Okay, let's say someone was in a Hot Air Balloon. They didn't know how to control it at all. 
Suddenly it gets released from the ground. They don't jump off immediately for simple reasons, they could fall on their face and similar. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their ankle, so they don't jump, although they are feeling a need to. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their leg, so they don't, although they feel they really need to. 
Finally they jump off and splat all over the ground. Pretty sucky for whoever cleans up road kill, honestly. 

Do you understand this concept now? Then let's move it to religion. 
Scientology is actually a very intelligently set up cult. 
It starts out with making you think it all makes sense, through "personality" tests and similar. Then you start investing more money. Then you get introduced to a lot of concepts such as Touch Therepy, which is basically a process of letting any and all wounds heal while taking hours to get closer to the wound by touching a part of the body and asking if the person can feel it. Naturally they accept it, as the personality tests made sense and they invested to much money to give up yet. Finally, after investing thousands to millions of dollars, they get told the stories of Cthuchilla and similar. As they invested so much money, they accept it. They really have no choice. 

That is honestly the smartest example I have seen of Religion using this to their benefit. 
Tell me what you think about this.

(October 27, 2015 at 10:55 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: Yeah, I can introduce some psychological concepts that show that believers may have bias, but where would the fun be in that? 
Ever read like half of a great book and stop reading it completely? 
Hard right? 
You gain a feeling of investing your energy and resources into this, and since you have already done it once you are more likely to do it again. I will explain it in Gory Hot Air Balloon Analogies. 
Okay, let's say someone was in a Hot Air Balloon. They didn't know how to control it at all. 
Suddenly it gets released from the ground. They don't jump off immediately for simple reasons, they could fall on their face and similar. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their ankle, so they don't jump, although they are feeling a need to. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their leg, so they don't, although they feel they really need to. 
Finally they jump off and splat all over the ground. Pretty sucky for whoever cleans up road kill, honestly. 

Do you understand this concept now? Then let's move it to religion. 
Scientology is actually a very intelligently set up cult. 
It starts out with making you think it all makes sense, through "personality" tests and similar. Then you start investing more money. Then you get introduced to a lot of concepts such as Touch Therepy, which is basically a process of letting any and all wounds heal while taking hours to get closer to the wound by touching a part of the body and asking if the person can feel it. Naturally they accept it, as the personality tests made sense and they invested to much money to give up yet. Finally, after investing thousands to millions of dollars, they get told the stories of Cthuchilla and similar. As they invested so much money, they accept it. They really have no choice. 

That is honestly the smartest example I have seen of Religion using this to their benefit. 
Tell me what you think about this.

You are essentially right.  This is an essential problem in religion. Which is why the true religion ought to emphasize to not follow it unless you are on clear proofs, insight and have knowledge of it being true. 

The problem is every people don't emphasize on that, I'm not sure how many religious texts emphasize on it, but I know Islam true faith is through knowledge. And if you are going to claim others should follow a path or enjoin upon society certain ritual acts or that a leader should be followed, the Quran says "bring your proof if you are truthful"

(October 27, 2015 at 11:11 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(October 27, 2015 at 10:55 pm)Shining_Finger Wrote: Yeah, I can introduce some psychological concepts that show that believers may have bias, but where would the fun be in that? 
Ever read like half of a great book and stop reading it completely? 
Hard right? 
You gain a feeling of investing your energy and resources into this, and since you have already done it once you are more likely to do it again. I will explain it in Gory Hot Air Balloon Analogies. 
Okay, let's say someone was in a Hot Air Balloon. They didn't know how to control it at all. 
Suddenly it gets released from the ground. They don't jump off immediately for simple reasons, they could fall on their face and similar. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their ankle, so they don't jump, although they are feeling a need to. 
Then it gets to a height where they could break their leg, so they don't, although they feel they really need to. 
Finally they jump off and splat all over the ground. Pretty sucky for whoever cleans up road kill, honestly. 

Do you understand this concept now? Then let's move it to religion. 
Scientology is actually a very intelligently set up cult. 
It starts out with making you think it all makes sense, through "personality" tests and similar. Then you start investing more money. Then you get introduced to a lot of concepts such as Touch Therepy, which is basically a process of letting any and all wounds heal while taking hours to get closer to the wound by touching a part of the body and asking if the person can feel it. Naturally they accept it, as the personality tests made sense and they invested to much money to give up yet. Finally, after investing thousands to millions of dollars, they get told the stories of Cthuchilla and similar. As they invested so much money, they accept it. They really have no choice. 

That is honestly the smartest example I have seen of Religion using this to their benefit. 
Tell me what you think about this.

You are essentially right.  This is an essential problem in religion. Which is why the true religion ought to emphasize to not follow it unless you are on clear proofs, insight and have knowledge of it being true. 

The problem is every people don't emphasize on that, I'm not sure how many religious texts emphasize on it, but I know Islam true faith is through knowledge. And if you are going to claim others should follow a path or enjoin upon society certain ritual acts or that a leader should be followed, the Quran says "bring your proof if you are truthful"

Then, What do you have to say to all the Atheist Scientists? 

Stephen Hawkings, Richard Dawkins, Peter Higgs, Fred Hallows, Erwin Schrodinger, Alan Turring and Neil DeGrasse Tyson for example.

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