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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 4:55 pm
(This post was last modified: November 11, 2015 at 4:56 pm by Neo-Scholastic.)
(November 10, 2015 at 11:34 pm)Beccs Wrote: Personal experiences are only evidence to those who have had the experience or are already prepared to believe them. Not exactly. Many psychology and sociology studies focus on subjective experiences. Case studies make it possible to glean data as evidence to support a hypothesis. For example, few things are more subjective than pain and yet how else could the effectiveness of pain relief medications be determined except by a survey of personal experiences?
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm
Thank you for the replies, and particularly to the reasons I gave. I will try to get to some in more detail tomorrow. But I do have one question.
I am aware of many of the studies you cited, and do not come to the same conclusion that witness testimony is unreliable. But I do have a question for you. Do you live believing that most of your memories of your life are largely inaccurate and unreliable to the truth? I think we can all point to areas where we where mistaken in memory or we remember something differently from someone else. But do you think that your picture of yourself is for the most part accurate?
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 5:19 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 4:55 pm)ChadWooters Wrote: Not exactly. Many psychology and sociology studies focus on subjective experiences.
And then there have been numerous expirements of people witnessing the same incident and giving totally different accounts. If you invoke psychology, better look at these and how unreliable witness accounts usually are.
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 5:33 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Thank you for the replies, and particularly to the reasons I gave. I will try to get to some in more detail tomorrow. But I do have one question.
I am aware of many of the studies you cited, and do not come to the same conclusion that witness testimony is unreliable.
This is because by accepting the implications of those studies, you'd have to discard your Christian beliefs. It's a clear expression of personally uncontrolled bias.
As for your questions about the reliability of our personal memories: I, for one, do not count on my personal memories or experiences as much as clear evidence when it comes to examining serious and/or extraordinary claims. Mundane claims, yes. Not otherwise.
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 5:38 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 5:33 pm)Irrational Wrote: (November 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Thank you for the replies, and particularly to the reasons I gave. I will try to get to some in more detail tomorrow. But I do have one question.
I am aware of many of the studies you cited, and do not come to the same conclusion that witness testimony is unreliable.
This is because by accepting the implications of those studies, you'd have to discard your Christian beliefs. It's a clear expression of personally uncontrolled bias.
As for your questions about the reliability of our personal memories: I, for one, do not count on my personal memories or experiences as much as clear evidence when it comes to examining serious and/or extraordinary claims. Mundane claims, yes. Not otherwise.
Yes... I disagree, therefore I must be the one who is biased.... If you would like to discuss them I would be happy to do so.
And the question was not if you count them as evidence for your special rules. It is if you think they are for the most part a reliable depiction of the truth about your life?
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 6:09 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: I am aware of many of the studies you cited, and do not come to the same conclusion that witness testimony is unreliable. But I do have a question for you. Do you live believing that most of your memories of your life are largely inaccurate and unreliable to the truth? I think we can all point to areas where we where mistaken in memory or we remember something differently from someone else. But do you think that your picture of yourself is for the most part accurate?
Evidence shows me that my memories are nebulous abstractions, even though I remember them as being concrete. For example, I have vivid memories of how people looked on certain days-- and then I look at a photograph, and think wow! that's really not how I remembered it.
I also know, through learning about psychology, how unreliable memories are, and that many childhood memories aren't memories at all, but reconstructions of things our parents have told us.
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 6:12 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 6:09 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Evidence shows me that my memories are nebulous abstractions, even though I remember them as being concrete. For example, I have vivid memories of how people looked on certain days-- and then I look at a photograph, and think wow! that's really not how I remembered it.
I also know, through learning about psychology, how unreliable memories are, and that many childhood memories aren't memories at all, but reconstructions of things our parents have told us.
From this thread, I'm surprised the person was there at all for the photo or that you where there.
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 6:14 pm
(This post was last modified: November 11, 2015 at 6:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(November 11, 2015 at 4:51 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (November 11, 2015 at 12:50 am)jenny1972 Wrote: yes thats true we do have to trust in other peoples observations . we trust in the observations of scientists for example , not all eyewitness testomony is accepted as reliable you have to take a good look at the eyewitnesses and take into account their mental state and many other factors to determine the reliability of the testamony . If we have no information about an eyewitness as to their reliability and mental state then that eyewitness testomony shouldnt be trusted ...
LOL.... do scientist have to submit to a phych eval every time they submit their work.
I generally agree, but where we cannot speak or access directly, then I think we need to rely on those around them. I also think that collaborating testimony helps here.
Nope...because we don't trust scientists, we trust their results. Again an example of the weakness of witness testimony.
"I made life in a test tube!"
-Do it again, while we watch. Give us step by step instructions, we'll try ourselves.
Science is a graveyard for failed claims. Plenty have been made, we know better than to take them for their word. We remember the ones that haven't been eviscerated (yet), but we forget that they lay atop a mountain of disinformation which had nothing but the claimants word attached. Witness testimony, meh. Get back to me when the Witnesses convert you with their "witness testimony".
The only time that collaborating testimony helps, is when we're sure that there's something around which the testimony collaborates. Yet another example of the weakness of eyewitness testimony, there must first be a fact established before it's even considered to be informative, let alone decisive.
Or, if you prefer, "no body, no crime".
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 6:29 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 5:18 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: Thank you for the replies, and particularly to the reasons I gave. I will try to get to some in more detail tomorrow. But I do have one question.
I am aware of many of the studies you cited, and do not come to the same conclusion that witness testimony is unreliable.
And you're qualified exactly how?
You're entitled to your own beliefs, but you're not entitled to your own facts.
Me, I'll take good studies over some guy on the Net. Thanks for offering your opinion.
Quote:But I do have a question for you. Do you live believing that most of your memories of your life are largely inaccurate and unreliable to the truth? I think we can all point to areas where we where mistaken in memory or we remember something differently from someone else. But do you think that your picture of yourself is for the most part accurate?
For the most part, yes. But thanks to a life lived a little wildly when I was younger, I know better than to trust it completely.
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RE: Witness Evidence
November 11, 2015 at 6:43 pm
(November 11, 2015 at 5:38 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: (November 11, 2015 at 5:33 pm)Irrational Wrote: This is because by accepting the implications of those studies, you'd have to discard your Christian beliefs. It's a clear expression of personally uncontrolled bias.
As for your questions about the reliability of our personal memories: I, for one, do not count on my personal memories or experiences as much as clear evidence when it comes to examining serious and/or extraordinary claims. Mundane claims, yes. Not otherwise.
Yes... I disagree, therefore I must be the one who is biased.... If you would like to discuss them I would be happy to do so.
And the question was not if you count them as evidence for your special rules. It is if you think they are for the most part a reliable depiction of the truth about your life?
I'm certain you disagree with the studies because your beliefs demand that you do. So yes, you let your bias get the better of you. We all have biases by the way, and we all fall prey to them, but we can (and should) acknowledge and control them when necessary.
As for your question, no, I don't consider my personal memories to be reliable much ... especially without verification/confirmation from others.
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