(December 3, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Cato Wrote:

(December 3, 2015 at 2:03 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't have strong feelings about guns/gun laws either way, but I do find it petty and almost insensitive to immediately start talking for/against guns every time people get killed.

I disagree CL, I liken this sentiment to demanding that tampon use can only be discussed when a woman isn't menstruating.

I don't think it shouldn't be discussed, it just feels exploitative to have it be the first thing brought up when this happens. Almost like you're using it to further your political stance. I mean, can't we just have like... one day to unite in our common sadness and think about the lives that were taken? Rather than immediately start thinking about/fighting about political issues? Just my opinion.

My friend just recorded this and asked me to post it on this forum.

(December 3, 2015 at 12:45 pm)The_Empress Wrote:

(December 3, 2015 at 12:44 pm)Minimalist Wrote: Then parroting NRA bullshit about how only criminals have guns is not helpful.

Our precious "lawmakers" have to stop pandering to the right-wing lunatic fringe and start acting.  Obviously, there is no one step that will solve the problem but that is no excuse to sit around with our thumbs up our asses while the body count rises.

I didn't do that...

Min, please don't tell me you're going into Brian-style histrionics and straw men.

Um, yeah you did.

This:

Quote: Except that the people who carried this out are (or were) criminals. I can't imagine they'd be like, "oh! We can't get a legal guns? Darn it! I guess we won't try to pull off that mass shooting. Bummer. We were so looking forward to that!"

pretty well matches one of their oldest talking points.


"If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns."

(December 3, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I don't think it shouldn't be discussed, it just feels exploitative to have it be the first thing brought up when this happens. Almost like you're using it to further your political stance. I mean, can't we just have like... one day to unite in our common sadness and think about the lives that were taken? Rather than immediately start thinking about/fighting about political issues? Just my opinion.

Almost impossible considering the frequency with which these events happen. The argument comes across as a sensible appeal, which is the position I think you are taking; however, it's clear now that the appeal is itself a political ploy to kick the can down the road. There's no engagement between incidents other than to have some scream '2nd Amendment' and shut down discussion.

It's funny, when I made a thread about the mass shooting in France that occurred lately people were all like 'It's more about the total murder rate, it's more about the total murder rate, it's more about the total murder rate!!!!!"

Why doesn't this apply to the United States? Where does the US rank in total murder rate? 121st.

121st! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co...icide_rate

(December 3, 2015 at 2:26 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:

(December 3, 2015 at 2:13 pm)Cato Wrote: I disagree CL, I liken this sentiment to demanding that tampon use can only be discussed when a woman isn't menstruating.

I don't think it shouldn't be discussed, it just feels exploitative to have it be the first thing brought up when this happens. Almost like you're using it to further your political stance. I mean, can't we just have like... one day to unite in our common sadness and think about the lives that were taken? Rather than immediately start thinking about/fighting about political issues? Just my opinion.

There's never been anything so tragic that it couldn't be immediately politically exploited.

(December 3, 2015 at 2:47 pm)Minimalist Wrote:

(December 3, 2015 at 12:45 pm)The_Empress Wrote: I didn't do that...

Min, please don't tell me you're going into Brian-style histrionics and straw men.

Um, yeah you did.

This:

Quote: Except that the people who carried this out are (or were) criminals. I can't imagine they'd be like, "oh! We can't get a legal guns? Darn it! I guess we won't try to pull off that mass shooting. Bummer. We were so looking forward to that!"

pretty well matches one of their oldest talking points.


"If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns."

Did I say, "If guns are outlawed only outlaws have guns"?

My point was that, a. they're already criminals because they killed and injured a bunch of people yesterday, guns or no guns; and b. we have an extremely high concentration of guns in this country and outlawing them is not going to get rid of them right away. I wish it would, but it won't.

Please don't strawman me and assign arguments I'm not even making. It's my biggest pet peeve, and I won't have it. Fuck that.

Every few weeks there seems to be a mass shooting somewhere in the US, can anyone remember the last time something like that happened in Britain?
Why would any sane country allow it's public to own and carry firearms?
I remember the first time I visited the US, I went to collect a hire car and the guy in the parking lot had a gun on his belt ... why would a parking attendant need to be armed?
Sorry America, but your brain is broken

(December 3, 2015 at 2:52 pm)CapnAwesome Wrote: There's never been anything so tragic that it couldn't be immediately politically exploited.

The only way this makes any sense is if you treat each incident as an isolated event without acknowledging common contributing factors that are open to mitigating solutions. That's the real tragedy understanding that continued apathy will only result in business as usual.

(December 3, 2015 at 3:06 pm)zebo-the-fat Wrote: Every few weeks there seems to be a mass shooting somewhere in the US, can anyone remember the last time something like that happened in Britain?
Why would any sane country allow it's public to own and carry firearms?
I remember the first time I visited the US, I went to collect a hire car and the guy in the parking lot had a gun on his belt ... why would a parking attendant need to be armed?
Sorry America, but your brain is broken

The overall murder rate in the US is at an all time low. Also there was a time when Britain had similar gun laws to the US, pre-1964. When they enacted their gun laws the murder rate didn't drop, it stayed the same and slowly rose through the 1970s. The UK has always had lower crime than the US, even when they gun laws were the same.