I like Dr Fuzzy. She's supa nice.

I agree.

(December 11, 2015 at 10:50 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Hello heathens. 

So I watched this 20/20 documentary the other night about a little girl who was abducted, raped, and murdered. The little girl's mother, through her faith, made the decision to forgive her daughter's murderer. She starts talking about it at 12:30 on the video below. 

"I made the commitment to work towards an attitude of forgiveness. I tried to think positive thoughts for him - let the weather be good for whatever he's doing today, if he's traveling may he not have any car trouble."

She prayed for him and was also against the death penalty for him. Once he was found and imprisoned, he killed himself in his cell, and she reached out to his mom and they laid flowers together on his grave.    

Loving and forgiving our enemies is a fundamental Christian teaching, coming from Jesus Himself. So the question to you guys is, do you agree with this teaching? Do you guys think loving/forgiving our enemies, even the people who have done the worst things imaginable to us, is something we should strive to do? Or do you think a person has no moral duty whatsoever to try to forgive people who have done such heinous things? 

Why or why not?  

Here's the documentary if anyone is interested:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JB1g4TxdhoE

Sometimes I can forgive those who hurt me, sometimes I can't. I prefer to do so, but it depends on the circumstances and our attitudes. I don't feel a moral obligation to do so, though; it's enlightened self-interest on my part, because I've found I live happier when I'm unencumbered by old anger.

Loving and forgiving my enemies? Pshaw! I prefer to crush them! See them driven before me. And to hear the lamentations of their women.

(December 12, 2015 at 2:40 am)KevinM1 Wrote: Loving and forgiving my enemies?  Pshaw!  I prefer to crush them!  See them driven before me.  And to hear the lamentations of their women.

Jaysus, those years in the slave pit made you kind of tense, huh?

Boru

Forgiving, imo, is neither moral nor immoral perse. The morality of such an act depends on context. For example, if a mother forgives her husband for the abuse (let's say sexual abuse) inflicted regularly on their own daughter, forgiveness in this case would in my opinion be immoral if doing so hurts the daughter even more.

Also, one thing no one should ever do is to ask someone else that they forgive their enemies, abusers, or what have you.

Quote:Also, one thing no one should ever do is to ask someone else that they forgive their enemies, abusers, or what have you.

Absofuckinglutely spot on. If someone wants to forgive the people who have wronged them go right ahead. But don't ask me to forgive the unrepentant shits in my life.

Boru

If I was starting an organization devoted to indoctrination, misinformation and exploitation of people, I'd sure as hell try to convince them, that forgiving those that f***ed them over (i.e. me) is the most awesome thing in the world.

Christian forgiveness I see mainly as a dishonest condescending platitude, used by people to self-aggrandize, by appearing noble and self-less, so that they can justify forgiving themselves for their own transgressions. They also involve god in this  whole exchange, so as to appear less self-centered... It always helps to have an imaginary friend, ready to forgive us for anything*, just as long as we're "weally, weally sowwy"...

"And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us" - Lord's Prayer

*except for denying the Holy Spirit and possibly few other things, depending on what's presently convenient for the Church, terms and conditions apply.

(December 12, 2015 at 7:31 am)Homeless Nutter Wrote: If I was starting an organization devoted to indoctrination, misinformation and exploitation of people, I'd sure as hell try to convince them, that forgiving those that f***ed them over (i.e. me) is the most awesome thing in the world.

Christian forgiveness I see mainly as a dishonest condescending platitude, used by people to self-aggrandize, by appearing noble and self-less, so that they can justify forgiving themselves for their own transgressions. They also involve god in this  whole exchange, so as to appear less self-centered... It always helps to have an imaginary friend, ready to forgive us for anything*, just as long as we're "weally, weally sowwy"...

"And forgive us our trespasses,
As we forgive them that trespass against us" - Lord's Prayer

*except for denying the Holy Spirit and possibly few other things, depending on what's presently convenient for the Church, terms and conditions apply.

Do you think the woman in this video is dishonest, self centered, and self serving, then?

(December 12, 2015 at 8:21 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Do you think the woman in this video is dishonest, self centered, and self serving, then?

I don't know how honest she was - I tend not to care enough to try and guess people's real intentions and motivations. She could be crazy, for all I know. But most likely - she just dealt with her grief however she saw fit.
I'm not worried about her motivations, though - I'm more concerned about motivations and honesty of people who use her story to propagate ideological dogma.

You have the right to forgive - or not - people who wronged you. Pushing indiscriminate forgiveness as a way to deal with grief and injustice on others - especially using promises of eternal life, divine justice and such - that's the part I'm objecting to. Teaching children to forgive everyone may be convenient, because it gets them to shut up about their stupid little problems already, but in the long run - it often culminates in psychological pressure on victims of serious crimes to stop "making a fuss".

And I'm not even going to talk about the fact, that any f*cker, that does some evil sh*t to me, or my family gets to go to a wooden box, where he gets "absolution" for his act against me, by a random guy in a dress...