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December 24, 2015 at 10:22 pm (This post was last modified: December 24, 2015 at 10:26 pm by drfuzzy.)
(December 24, 2015 at 3:19 pm)Delicate Wrote:
(December 24, 2015 at 9:26 am)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:
You shouldn't. You also shouldn't ignore when we do provide evidence, a tendency I've noticed in you. We eventually quit listing specifics when dealing with you, as we know you'll just gloss it over to say something like the above.
Yes, I am saying it is a lie. But I am also saying why that is so. There are so many thousands of version of Christian theology that it's impossible to completely agree on points of doctrine, even if you and I were both devout Christians. Yet when an atheist gets something "wrong" (which is correct under Denomination X, but not Denomination Y), you say we simply don't understand the religion. You claim you have all this experience with stupid atheists, but I think you are lying because I have twenty years of almost exclusively dealing with atheist groups, and I have found that a great many of us have a very deep level of understanding (see my own education, listed above), while the vast majority have a well-above-average understanding. This isn't just me saying this, though... it's backed up by actual research. One example:
So... like, every other thread ever created on this forum? I'm going on vacation for a couple of weeks, in an hour or so, but I'll be glad to hold any or all of the above discussions, when I return.
I'd venture to say that most PEOPLE on the internet are idiots. Why you think this applies to atheists exclusively, I can only speculate (prejudice? bigotry? confirmation bias?), but I can say that even given the nature of internet conversations, I have not found atheists to be less intelligent. What I can't figure out is why you hold so much hatred in your heart.
Okay. You refuse to say that dragons are imaginary. Got it. See? That's the difference. When you tell me something about your beliefs, I listen and change my ideas to fit the new information. As to the basis for thinking dragons aren't real, I have already listed them. Why do you have such a difficult time with reading comprehension, such that you will ask me to provide evidence of something in the very next post after I have done so. Short version: the versions that fit the mythological description of "a dragon" are too big to fly under their own power via the laws of physics/aerodynamics, fire-breathing creatures are impossible (perhaps a Bombardier beetle type of caustic chemical spray, but not fire), and there are no hexapedal reptiles. It defies everything I understand about how physics and biology operate... but it is also clearly identifiable as a good story, so it's an easy conclusion that they're not real.
No, I find telling my fellow board members what they can and can't say to be censorship. I don't support prejudice and biased thinking in general, and strive to eliminate it as much as possible, but I consider actively censoring or otherwise controlling people to be a worse act than tolerating the presence of a few people who like to express their prejudices. As I said, I'm happy to point out such thinking errors, doing to them as I do to you, but I try to be tolerant of all persons who are not seeking to harm others actively. That's derived from my Secular Humanist beliefs. Atheism is a lack of beliefs, period; Secular Humanism makes several positive assertions based on our understanding of the common nature of humanity and philosophies which stem from that ideal. The two terms are often confused, because SH are atheists, in general, but they're not the same thing (it's the Bill Gates is a Wealthy Person but a Wealthy Person is not necessarily Bill Gates bit).
In any case, as I've said elsewhere, I'm about to pack up the truck and head to Louisiana for my Christmas/New Years's vacation to see my extended family, inlaws, and parents. I'll be gone until January 3rd. I'll try to check in via my smartphone and laptop, but frankly I'll likely be too busy to want to chat on here until then.
Merry Christmas to you, and Happy Holidays to everyone else.
Oh yes, and to be fair, rock crushers do prove everything you've claimed is false. Sorry but the Argument from Rock Crushers is a tough one for theists to beat. ;
Time and again atheists embarrass themselves in conversations, with their appeals to slogans, which, when scrutinized, leave them empty-handed or shortchanged.
Your evidence justifying atheist ignorance about theology fails because atheists even fail to correctly represent views that are widespread across most denominations.
Likewise with atheists being idiots. You agree with me the majority of atheists ARE in fact idiots, but say it generalizes to all populations online.
But there's no evidence suggesting ornithologists are predominantly idiots online. There isn't even evidence of that sort for Hindus. Or lacrosse players. Or metaphysicians. Or pottery enthusiasts. Or Christians.
But atheists. Oh is there evidence for the idiocy of atheists here...ask me to substantiate this with evidence on this very forum!
Quote:You refuse to say that dragons are imaginary.
Correct. Because I don't have enough evidence to conclusively justify that claim as true across the history of biological life.
And by the way, I don't take it that all alleged dragons can fly. Historical depictions of dragons are quite diverse. Your reasoning here fails because it applies only to dragons that are said to fly. Or breathe fire. Or have six legs. What about watersnake-type dragons? Or dragons that don't breathe fire? Or the ones that don't have six legs? Or dragons with none of these features that yet fall under the category of dragon.
The fact is, no evidence rules them out. So the fact is, while the evidence suggests they are implausible, it doesn't suggest they don't exist.
Facts make someone a theist. Fiction makes you make you an agnostic atheist.
Like the "facts" contained in the offensive book of fairy tales otherwise known as the Wholly Babble? Now that's FUNNY, right there.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
(December 24, 2015 at 7:29 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Either way.
It is still up to you to provide your evidence, then we'll assess it to determine if it is: demonstrable, repeatable, falsifiable and stands up to reasoned argument, and is logically valid and sound.
I'm not about to guess what evidence you claim to have, then dismiss it as not being convincing without first examining it.
Please, open a thread, present your evidence so it can be assessed.
If it's up to me to provide evidence, and I haven't, then your atheism isn't based on analyzing and debunking any evidence, is it?
Your atheism can only be based on blind incompetence, as you admit.
If this is your way of admitting you haven't presented any evidence, I won't argue with it.
(December 24, 2015 at 2:20 pm)Simon Moon Wrote: Yes, you continue to make that assertion, yet, you have been asked many times to open a thread and present your evidence. Aren't you obligated under Peter 3:15 to do that? Or am I misunderstanding Christianity?
If you have done that already and I missed it, please point me to it.
Other than that, all I can see is you making one unsupported assertion after another.
The burden of proof is on the atheist who claims to have assessed the evidence and have good reasons to reject putative evidence, to provide their reasons.
Otherwise they are charlatans.
The burden of proof is upon the person making the claim. By attacking our stance that we do not see enough evidence to cause us to believe in a deity, you are claiming the existence of said deity. Therefore, the burden of proof requires that you provide the evidence that you claim to have, which (according to you) we either cannot see or have foolishly dismissed. The only evidence that most atheists will accept is quantitative, verifiable, empirical scientific data. If you have that data, then provide it. If you cannot provide it, and keep posting deflections and strawmen and insults and non sequiturs . . . then we should all stop responding, because you have already proven that you are a lying troll.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
Delicate is playing the ever tiring game of pretending to have evidence. After all, personal experience is not evidence. Too many people make personal claims in regards to all sorts of things, and we are supposed to believe those claims despite the lack of evidence. Stupid ignorant twats.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
(December 24, 2015 at 10:41 pm)Kitan Wrote: Delicate is playing the ever tiring game of pretending to have evidence. After all, personal experience is not evidence. Too many people make personal claims in regards to all sorts of things, and we are supposed to believe those claims despite the lack of evidence. Stupid ignorant twats.
Exactly, Kitan. We have told Delicate - how many? - times that we need empirical evidence for the existence of a deity - - which is the very basis of the OP and nearly every other post Delicate has made. It is the very basis of the attack . . . saying that there is evidence for god, but we are just too (stupid, ignorant, deluded, misled, incompetent, and a dozen other insults that have been thrown our way) to see and acknowledge it.
We say, fine. Provide your evidence. However, it has to be quantifiable and qualitative scientific evidence.
No evidence arrives. Just more attacks. Which means that Delicate is playing a troll/Poe game and has proven hundreds of times that the evidence we are being attacked for not accepting doesn't exist at all. Delicate can't provide one sentence, one link to anything, that will prove the OP.
We might just have to agree to ignore the idiot troll at this point. I have some celebrating to do tomorrow, and I think I'll celebrate not responding to this stuck up, holier-than-thou, disrespectful, ego-theistical moron any more.
"The family that prays together...is brainwashing their children."- Albert Einstein
(December 24, 2015 at 3:22 pm)Delicate Wrote: The burden of proof is on the atheist who claims to have assessed the evidence and have good reasons to reject putative evidence, to provide their reasons.
Otherwise they are charlatans.
The burden of proof is upon the person making the claim.
Hence if you claim you've seen no evidence for theism you have to substantiate it.
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