(January 3, 2016 at 10:55 am)MysticKnight Wrote: Two different questions.

What convinced me of God's existence after a brief week of Atheism?

What motivated me back to God's existence and acknowledgment of her link to me?

The motivations was the following:


First my belief that without God, it was not rational to be warranted and justified in believing in morality, value, praise, free-will, perpetual identity, inheritance of good actions, etc....since I doubted those things as much as I doubted God, or believed they probably were delusional as God as delusional...I was in crisis...I had to figure out the truth and know for certain. 

That is motivation though. None of that proves God exists. The other motivation was that I couldn't handle the thought that creatures insects, animals, humans, all die and become nothing. And at the end, for all I know, life itself may very well end forever (ie. no life in the future).

Another motivation I had was that such a being existing would be most worthwhile existence. I am glad for it to exist were to exist, and wanted to know if it did, for it is a cause of serenity and peace, if I were to know it does.

These things motivated me to be true to myself. I had to know not simply just convince myself God exists. The journey back to God was not long after that and grew stronger then before.  It was within few years that the identity of God became that of a religious flavor as opposed a deistic flavor. 

This was through long reflection over issue, arguments and counter arguments, and the end, what became more obvious to me (that God is a Guiding Lord, and there enlightened people who have certainty in vision of God, his signs, and the lights of his commands, and that God would manifest some of the people to be followed for humanity to gain vision in truth).

I don't follow, so you stopped believing in god for a week and you started to feel like morality, values, etc. can't exist without god? That means you never actually let go of your belief in god if you feel like morality can't exists without god.

(January 5, 2016 at 10:33 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote:

(January 5, 2016 at 10:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: Dude, chill. I'm not really much of a debater...anymore. You can believe anything you wish, but let me believe as I wish to believe, too. You seem to have the issue, not me. lol

Oh, puLEEEEEZZE don't pretend you weren't trying to throw the stinky my way! I happen to be perfectly cool about it, not mad at all. I expect no more from theists who choose to spend their time here, and you happen to impress me above most in that category. What does matter, and what I will not let slide is when Christians hit-and-run, leaving misinformation behind. I'm not completely sure that you misunderstand (or did) the difference between a NTS fallacy and a distinction which is well-applied because the title in question is specifically-defined, and then I wanted to help you understand what that is.

You're welcome.

lol I understand, I do. Truly, and you needn't take my word for it...but truly...I'm not interested in changing anyone's minds here. I once identified as an atheist, and spent a lot of time here ...and made some dear e-friends along the way. I like it here, I guess. No agenda. But, if you convert...don't blame me. Just kidding!! 

Nice meeting you.

So, all those "convert or burn" messages you sent me weren't an attempt to convert me, Deirdre?

:-P

(January 5, 2016 at 10:21 pm)*Deidre* Wrote:

(January 5, 2016 at 10:07 pm)God of Mr. Hanky Wrote: When you are really playing the game of the No True Scotsman Fallacy, the difference is in whether or not you have confused, or are seeking to confuse the definition of whatever school of thought which you claim. Can you give me a fail-safe definition of that school "Christian"? Would any official teacher in this school say it does not require belief? I was told by my youth pastor, decades ago that being "Christian" literally means "Christ-like". So could one be a Christian by acting just like Jesus did but doesn't actually believe the Jesus story? Then there's the rebel factor, and boy was Jesus ever described as this, in fact what he is said to have done would have gotten him in jail much sooner today than it eventually took him to the cross. The guy was a rebel, and in all honesty, a bit of a jerk with people who were just trying to pay their rent by plying their trade. REBEL is what most religious people treat the atheist as, and most religious people have no idea what else it really means. "ATHEIST" does NOT mean one who rebels against god, which is in all likelihood what happens when someone declares themselves atheist, while still believing that god is something other than a myth. OK, I went through attempts I've seen on how Christians define their own group. Would you like it if atheists and other people defined Christianity for you Christians? No? Then please don't define atheism for the atheists. The most straightforward definition is derived from the negation "a" and "theist", which means "believes in a god" - this yields "not a theist". That means exactly what it says on the tin, it doesn't say "rebel who is angry with his god", and that is why I can tell you without laying down any No True Scotsman violations that you are wrong if you say your rebels who stopped going to your church for awhile and started talking shit about your god were "atheists" just for that.

Dude, chill. I'm not really much of a debater...anymore. You can believe anything you wish, but let me believe as I wish to believe, too. You seem to have the issue, not me. lol

Oh, puLEEEEEZZE don't pretend you weren't trying to throw the stinky my way! I happen to be perfectly cool about it, not mad at all. I expect no more from theists who choose to spend their time here, and you happen to impress me above most in that category. What does matter, and what I will not let slide is when Christians hit-and-run, leaving misinformation behind. I'm not completely sure that you misunderstand (or did) the difference between a NTS fallacy and a distinction which is well-applied because the title in question is specifically-defined, and then I wanted to help you understand what that is.

You're welcome.

Quote:I'm not really much of a debater...

Good, I don't like to debate either. But to be misunderstood and the subject of a hit-and-run attack is not what I'm going to ignore.

Quote:You can believe anything you wish, but let me believe as I wish to believe, too

I haven't even attacked your faith ideas, don't know why you would say that. I was simply discussing how the disparate groups Christians and atheists define themselves.

Quote:You seem to have the issue, not me. lol

Without even a direct attack on your beliefs, something I said must have hit a nerve, and it hardly makes sense unless the person with issues is you.

(January 5, 2016 at 10:46 pm)Beccs Wrote: So, all those "convert or burn" messages you sent me weren't an attempt to convert me, Deirdre?

:-P

Did it work? 

Only to make me love ya more, sweetie.

:-)

(January 5, 2016 at 10:37 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: I don't follow, so you stopped believing in god for a week and you started to feel like morality, values, etc. can't exist without god? That means you never actually let go of your belief in god if you feel like morality can't exists without god.

Well, I felt might perhaps could exist without God, till I really thought about it. Here is the thread where I discussed the issue of value:  http://atheistforums.org/thread-15323-page-7.html You "that means" doesn't follow. I had hope that God existed, but I was closer to despair at his existence, which is why this issue was very emotional for me.  I didn't believe in God, I hope he existed, but I had arguments against God's existence. You can tell by those posts that this issue of human value hurt me. I read the posts again, and I remember the pain I was in.

(January 5, 2016 at 10:49 pm)Beccs Wrote: Only to make me love ya more, sweetie.

:-)

You're so awesome. 

(January 5, 2016 at 9:56 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: No way.
There is a way.
That leads to a higher way.
Cause it's all in our heads.
It's all in our heads.

No way.
There is a way.
To know the basis of the way.
Cause it's all in our heads.
It's all in our heads.

No way.
There is a way.
To be guided on the way.
Cause it's all in our heads.
It's all in our heads.

No way.
There is a way.
To know the Guide of the way.
Cause it's all in our heads.
It's all in our heads.

No way
There is a way
To know we are a way
Cause it's all in our heads
It's all in our heads.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Am I right?

?????

If claims to the unfalsifiable idea that a perfect and metaphysical being is the ultimate answer to life's questions, then yes it is passed from one head to another, down through the generations. You probably weren't first "informed" of your god's "role" in your life at any age younger than your teen years - if so, it's unlikely you would keep such ideas.

If you happen to be a NASA scientist and a believer too, then that's fine so long as you don't exclaim "There's God's footprint!" when you discover a strange-shaped crater on Mars.

(January 5, 2016 at 10:51 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 5, 2016 at 10:37 pm)Mr.wizard Wrote: I don't follow, so you stopped believing in god for a week and you started to feel like morality, values, etc. can't exist without god? That means you never actually let go of your belief in god if you feel like morality can't exists without god.

Well, I felt might perhaps could exist without God, till I really thought about it. Here is the thread where I discussed the issue of value:  http://atheistforums.org/thread-15323-page-7.html You "that means" doesn't follow. I had hope that God existed, but I was closer to despair at his existence, which is why this issue was very emotional for me.  I didn't believe in God, I hope he existed, but I had arguments against God's existence. You can tell by those posts that this issue of human value hurt me. I read the posts again, and I remember the pain I was in.

So your morals and values disappeared during the week you stopped believing in god?