Books are magical, apparently.

(January 8, 2016 at 11:30 am)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 11:27 am)MysticKnight Wrote: I'm not saying you are wrong, but can you show examples of other books having a lot of coincidences like Quran does? You can read some of those there though I can't testify to all that's there: http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/mathem...index.html 

(haven't checked all, but all the ones I have checked were true)

I want to understand this thing. What is the probability etc.

People have done the same with the Bible, in whole or in part, the Talmud, the Bhagavad-Gita, the book of the Tao and the writings of Confucius, and the works of Nostradamus.  A quick Google search can surely find those and more.

I looked at some of these claims. To me they refute the so called 19 number miracle or when you start muliplying and dividing and what not. 

But if for example, you have 23 times man 23 times woman...now this is a coincidence, equality maybe signified by it if you believe in the religion. Itself it means nothing. With science, we have 23 chromosomes from men 23 chromosomes from woman making 46. And it still means nothing by itself. For believers they might say, hey cool.

But if there is a lot of such patterns. If there is many more coincidences like these. They tend to add up do they not?

From what I see of other books, it tends to be play with mathematics to deceive people which I think is the case for the so called 19 number miracle.

(January 8, 2016 at 11:48 am)MysticKnight Wrote: From what I see of other books, it tends to be play with mathematics to deceive people which I think is the case for the so called 19 number miracle.

b-mine

...so close.   Keep grasping for the ring of reason, buddy..you'll get there.

Is Quran the proof of God?

No.

Next question.

(January 8, 2016 at 11:48 am)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 11:30 am)drfuzzy Wrote: People have done the same with the Bible, in whole or in part, the Talmud, the Bhagavad-Gita, the book of the Tao and the writings of Confucius, and the works of Nostradamus.  A quick Google search can surely find those and more.

I looked at some of these claims. To me they refute the so called 19 number miracle or when you start muliplying and dividing and what not. 

But if for example, you have 23 times man 23 times woman...now this is a coincidence, equality maybe signified by it if you believe in the religion. Itself it means nothing. With science, we have 23 chromosomes from men 23 chromosomes from woman making 46. And it still means nothing by itself. For believers they might say, hey cool.

But if there is a lot of such patterns. If there is many more coincidences like these. They tend to add up do they not?

From what I see of other books, it tends to be play with mathematics to deceive people which I think is the case for the so called 19 number miracle.

They are all pathetic attempts to show that the book in question was not created by a human being.  Another grasping at straws to try to prove that disembodied entities are trying to send us messages that only the inspired and enlightened can find.  It's just a bunch of number manipulation, and total rubbish.

(January 8, 2016 at 11:58 am)drfuzzy Wrote: They are all pathetic attempts to show that the book in question was not created by a human being.  Another grasping at straws to try to prove that disembodied entities are trying to send us messages that only the inspired and enlightened can find.  It's just a bunch of number manipulation, and total rubbish.

Let's think about this for a second. A Creator who created the universe surely can make certain words coincide with other words. The Quran being revealed in period of 23 years....it would be a little hard for a person to make sure words coincide with other words though right.

She also aware of science and that we would come to this age of science, can do this. She can put the chapter of Iron specifically in that number to coincide with science. 

Now God can certainly can do that. We know She can if She exists. The thing is when is doing enough of such things go past coincidence into some sort of hint that it is from God? That perhaps we should take a look into the book and see what does it say?

Perhaps not as full out conclusive proof but one that says, hey, you sure you don't want to take a look inside?

No, Mystic, there is never a point at which these "quranic miracles" cause a rational person to consider that the book might have something to it. Quranic miracles don't exist, whats being highlighted here is your credulity and dissonance.

(January 8, 2016 at 12:08 pm)Rhythm Wrote: No, Mystic, there is never a point at which these "quranic miracles" cause a rational person to consider that the book might have something to it.  Quranic miracles don't exist, whats being highlighted here is your credulity and dissonance.

I'm not saying they are miracles or that there is too many coincidences. I'm trying to reason regarding this issue. People claim other books have such things occur. So I'm trying to understand this phenomenon. When can we tell the difference between purposely design and coincidence?

(January 8, 2016 at 12:06 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:

(January 8, 2016 at 11:58 am)drfuzzy Wrote: They are all pathetic attempts to show that the book in question was not created by a human being.  Another grasping at straws to try to prove that disembodied entities are trying to send us messages that only the inspired and enlightened can find.  It's just a bunch of number manipulation, and total rubbish.

Let's think about this for a second. A Creator who created the universe surely can make certain words coincide with other words. The Quran being revealed in period of 23 years....it would be a little hard for a person to make sure words coincide with other words though right.

She also aware of science and that we would come to this age of science, can do this. She can put the chapter of Iron specifically in that number to coincide with science. 

Now God can certainly can do that. We know She can if She exists. The thing is when is doing enough of such things go past coincidence into some sort of hint that it is from God? That perhaps we should take a look into the book and see what does it say?

Perhaps not as full out conclusive proof but one that says, hey, you sure you don't want to take a look inside?

There are LOTS of people who think the Bible was written by gawd and full of these "hidden messages".  The book is a masterpiece of contradictions and scientific absurdities.  Playing silly math games with the text does not help or prove anything, other than people can take a bunch of letters and do goofy things with them.

Doing the same thing to the Quran, or any other writing, is not proof at all.  And any deity that needs to HIDE all of these special messages in a book that was supposed to be special in the first place - - that's ridiculous.  Any deity that can hide things in a book could have come right out and said them from the beginning.   How about "slavery is wrong"?  How about "rape is wrong"?  If god is going to tell us about science and the universe and physics, why not just tell us about the Solar System up front?   None of these so-called "holy books" are worth the paper they're printed on, other than as a historical record of how bronze-age goat herders viewed the world.

You have already made your conclusions on those points regarding other books.  You have failed to apply them to your own.