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Jehanne · January 9, 2016 at 8:11 am

He seemed like he converted to evangelical Christianity out of despair, in particular, being exposed to suffering, death and anguish in patients of his, young children, who were dying of cancer. After that, he had an "experience" while walking in the woods (seeing three frozen streams of water) which lead him to a belief in the Trinity.

While we can all sympathize with the loss of young children, what does the board think of Dr. Francis Collins and his alleged "conversion" from atheism (assuming, of course, he was ever a true atheist to begin with, having been raised, by his own admission, by liberal Christian parents)? It seems to me that his "justification" for his new theistic beliefs came ex post facto after his religious conversion.

**robvalue** · (This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 8:19 am by robvalue.)

I don't know much about him, but it sounds like a coping mechanism. It sounds like he went through many horrible experiences. The mind does what it has to do to keep you going, even if it means allowing in a level of delusion. Even a sceptic can break under severe pressure, if he was one.

I was going to mention this, and it seems like a good place here. For any of you who watch Eastenders, there's a really interesting and frankly quite dark storyline going at the moment. Hide tags to avoid spoiling and/or boredom.

**The Valkyrie** · January 9, 2016 at 8:22 am

People will find any way they can to deal with tragedy and stress.

Personally I've sat with many people as they've died and seen things that, frankly, would make some peopke freak out.

For some in my field, it's a coping mwchanism. Having seen and experienced what I have has had the opposite effect for me.

It reinforced my atheism.

No 'all good, all loving' god would allow the things I've seen.

abaris · January 9, 2016 at 8:54 am

Working as a medic for several years, I may have similar experiences to Beccs. What struck me most, was the banality of death. Someone lying on the floor, their personal stuff being arranged on shelves to never be used again. Or, someone having died in their bathroom, having suffered a massive Hemorrhage. And you could actually follow the traces of their dying by following the blood. That really freaked me out, since I couldn't help feeling their ultimate despair.

What can I say? I sat at my parent's death beds and it didn't convert me. I only knew I had to cope with the loss, since I would never see them again. No revelation, no nothing.

**The Grand Nudger** · (This post was last modified: January 9, 2016 at 9:23 am by The Grand Nudger.)

You mean you didn't see three frozen streams or anything? Wink

Jehanne · January 9, 2016 at 9:47 am

(January 9, 2016 at 8:18 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't know much about him, but it sounds like a coping mechanism.

I underwent a nearly-identical experience to that of Collins; however, unlike him, I am a nobody and have not made significant amounts of money from writing a book and other gratuity fees. If Collins would ever "come clean," his publisher would likely pull his book from print and he would suffer a lot of revulsion from having been a "flip-flopper".

Thumpalumpacus · January 9, 2016 at 11:24 am

He seems like a solid scientist.

I don't give a shit about his religious beliefs.

**Minimalist** · January 9, 2016 at 12:08 pm

I think Beccs nailed it. Collins has been quoted:

Quote:In your book, you say religion and science can coexist in one person's mind. This has been a struggle for some people, especially in terms of evolution. How do you reconcile evolution and the Bible?

As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before.

It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming.

I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that.

So he is a fully competent scientific mind who simply chooses to believe in nonsense for reasons of his own. I have no doubt that other "True Xtians" will denounce him for his lack of faith but on the other hand they need all the help they can get. The only problem with guys like Collins is that he gives the morons some cover.

As H. L. Mencken noted:

Quote:The effort to reconcile science and religion is almost always made, not by theologians, but by scientists unable to shake off altogether the piety absorbed with their mother’s milk.
— H L Mencken

Jehanne · January 9, 2016 at 12:20 pm

(January 9, 2016 at 12:08 pm)Minimalist Wrote: I think Beccs nailed it. Collins has been quoted:

Quote:In your book, you say religion and science can coexist in one person's mind. This has been a struggle for some people, especially in terms of evolution. How do you reconcile evolution and the Bible?

As someone who's had the privilege of leading the human genome project, I've had the opportunity to study our own DNA instruction book at a level of detail that was never really possible before.

It's also now been possible to compare our DNA with that of many other species. The evidence supporting the idea that all living things are descended from a common ancestor is truly overwhelming.

I would not necessarily wish that to be so, as a Bible-believing Christian. But it is so. It does not serve faith well to try to deny that.

So he is a fully competent scientific mind who simply chooses to believe in nonsense for reasons of his own. I have no doubt that other "True Xtians" will denounce him for his lack of faith but on the other hand they need all the help they can get. The only problem with guys like Collins is that he gives the morons some cover.

As H. L. Mencken noted:

Quote:The effort to reconcile science and religion is almost always made, not by theologians, but by scientists unable to shake off altogether the piety absorbed with their mother’s milk.
— H L Mencken

And, yet, Collins believes, perhaps implicitly, in Adam & Eve:

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com...a-contest/

**Minimalist** · January 9, 2016 at 1:28 pm

Again, refer to the Mencken quote.

Remember, someone can be a genius in one field and a complete asshole in another.....especially if he wants to believe in bullshit.

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