I don't have a problem with anyone questioning her story, if she has claimed rape 10 times somebody should be looking at her with skepticism. If her story turns out to be credible then I do not blame her for being raped, I do think she needs to take a look at her decision making to avoid dangerous situations.

(January 10, 2016 at 3:12 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I do blame her. What she did was not just a little, but incredibly stupid. I just won't let him off the hook either. He's still a rapist and should be punished. Her stupidity was self punishing.

What I don't like about her campaign is not the message that rape is rape even if the victim is stupid. That's a good message. But she suggests that it's okay to be stupid. It isn't. It's dangerous and it will always be dangerous.

I'll give you an example with different sexes. A man wants to be tied up and taken sexually. He lets a drunken woman who admits she likes to seriously injured men tie him up. She seriously injures him. She's guiltily of assault and should be punished. He's guilty of stupidity and has been punished. No one should be assulted, but no one should do anything as dangerous as he did.

I agree with your general sentiment but I disagree that it applies in this case. Kissing someone in a shower isn't consenting to full sex. It *could* lead to sex, and the guy can't be blamed for trying to get sex in that situation, but if she explicitly said no, he should have stopped.

Unless she knew that he was a violent and rapist drunk before she got into the shower with him, I honestly don't see how your example even comes close to the same thing.

(January 10, 2016 at 3:09 pm)KevinM1 Wrote: Yeah, you're right.  I wrote that in haste while being a bit perturbed with Evie when I felt he was trying to put words in my mouth, and as a result was very sloppy.  I'm sorry.

I really wasn't meaning to come across that way but I think I do sometimes and I'm sorry. I'm a crap listener sometimes too, I hope you believe me when I say I really wasn't meaning to do that. I was responding to you and then making points about how I feel on the matter, and I was sure that your intentions and what you were trying to say was different from your actual words.

Yes you never said some of the things I was saying was wrong to say, but I really didn't mean to make you feel like I was saying that you were saying those things.

I'm sorry for being so shit at explaining myself sometimes.

First, stop thinking about rape for a bit to understand why I say, No, I don't think a victim SHOULD ALWAYS be blame free as a rule, like if you tried to hug a hungry tiger, you are bound to be eaten, and you'd rightly deserve the blame not the tiger.

The problem here is rape is a very sensitive issue, and it tends to make people a bit biased. Rape IS WRONG and the perpetrator needs to be dealt with harshly. No one so far is disagreeing with that! But not looking at the context is also wrong. I am not saying the context excuses the rapist, but the context shows what went wrong and what could have been changed to avoid the event.

Being raped and being stupid enough to ignore all survival instincts are two different issues. And in this case the second directly led to the first, so maybe instead of ignoring it entirely, learn from it as to what not to do in future?

I just think "blame" is the wrong word to be directed at a victim, especially so with rape. Victim-blaming is harmful and the focus needs to be on what the rapist did wrong, not what the victim did wrong.

(January 10, 2016 at 3:26 pm)Evie Wrote: I just think "blame" is the wrong word to be directed at a victim, especially so with rape. Victim-blaming is harmful and the focus needs to be on what the rapist did wrong, not what the victim did wrong.

Victim blaming isn't restricted to rape, and it is wrong.

Rape is wrong but punishment isn't a solution, learning from the event however has way better chances of providing a solution.

I agree 100% there.

(January 10, 2016 at 3:18 pm)Tiberius Wrote:

(January 10, 2016 at 3:12 pm)Jenny A Wrote: I do blame her. What she did was not just a little, but incredibly stupid. I just won't let him off the hook either. He's still a rapist and should be punished. Her stupidity was self punishing.

What I don't like about her campaign is not the message that rape is rape even if the victim is stupid. That's a good message. But she suggests that it's okay to be stupid. It isn't. It's dangerous and it will always be dangerous.

I'll give you an example with different sexes. A man wants to be tied up and taken sexually. He lets a drunken woman who admits she likes to seriously injured men tie him up. She seriously injures him. She's guiltily of assault and should be punished. He's guilty of stupidity and has been punished. No one should be assulted, but no one should do anything as dangerous as he did.

I agree with your general sentiment but I disagree that it applies in this case. Kissing someone in a shower isn't consenting to full sex. It *could* lead to sex, and the guy can't be blamed for trying to get sex in that situation, but if she explicitly said no, he should have stopped.

Unless she knew that he was a violent and rapist drunk before she got into the shower with him, I honestly don't see how your example even comes close to the same thing.

As I read the sidebar, she knew he wanted her and that he was drunk. What he did was terribly wrong. Her stupidity in no way excuses him, not even a little bit. But her actions were irresponsible. It's like refusing to use anti-virus programs and then not accepting any responsibility for getting computer viruses.

If my hypothetical man didn't know the woman he tie him up was violent, but had only met her that evening, he'd still be stupid.

Safty as well as don't rape should be taught.

(January 10, 2016 at 1:41 pm)Chad32 Wrote: You decided to get intimate with a drunk person, and are upset that he didn't stop at the point you wanted to stop. Now I know what he did was wrong, but what she did was also wrong. Rape is not ok, but you should also not put yourself in that kind of position if you aren't planning to go all the way. If you don't want to have sex, don't get naked and start kissing someone. especially someone who is drunk.

Now if a woman just happens to be walking down the street in a revealing outfit, and she gets jumped and raped, I put full blame on the rapists. But there's a difference between a poor innocent victim going about their day, and getting raped, and someone who decided she wants to get naked and kiss a drunk guy, and expecting him to know when to stop.

getting run over by a car is a horrible thing, but if you were playing in the street when it happened it's a little bit your fault. Context is important.

This.

Rape is always wrong, violating someone is always wrong, but don't trust the other person to always look out for your well being and safety. The world can be dangerous, and you have to protect yourself and be very cautious of who you spend time alone with.

I think you can make two statements at the same time and not be contradictory.

#1 - She is not to blame whatsoever, and the rapist deserves the full punishment allowed for violent rape.

#2 - Moving forward in everyone's life: predators exist. They are out there and they will take advantage of any power differential to get what they want. Being aware of this and living your life in such a way as to acknowledge these risks is something everyone should do.

There is a time and a place for that second conversation. And it's not right after a person experiences a rape. And maybe it's not for any of us to have with her. Maybe her therapist could work through how she can set up more appropriate boundaries in order to reduce the risk of this happening again, not as a way to excoriate her in any fashion for what occurred here.

I think you can say those two things, and still be on her side. That man is a predator. He violently raped her, and should be put away for a long time. She also could have better protected herself. But I would only say that when talking about this from the outside, I would never say that second part to this woman, because it wouldn't help her. I would say this to a friend or my daughter (in the future) if we were discussing this in a vacuum.

Saying "she could have better protected herself" is not the same as saying "she is partly to blame."