[quote pid='1168058' dateline='1452397457']

i guess it proves that religion is better then atheism, because at least we can control our emotion and tongue to say the least
[/quote]

Where have you been living? In america atheists have been beaten and shot for non-belief. Muslims throw atheists off roofs and stone them. Atheists are vilified and denigrated  and your getting upset at a bit of banter!
Grow a pair princess.

(May 12, 2012 at 10:12 am)jain.rahul Wrote: This proves that Quran is the word of God.

Funny how that turned from a question into an outright statement.
Did I mention I get bored when that happens? Heads up; I do.

swearing and vulgar language is a display of a mentally exhausted emotional person

and everything i have said is based on facts

otherwise do you think that 2 billion Muslims in the world adhere to ISIS ideologies? if that is what you are saying you are extremely ignorant and wrong and irrational

(January 10, 2016 at 2:16 am)robvalue Wrote: Why on earth would anyone be rude to them?

All they did was bust into Tiberius' virtual house, ranting, raving, shitting all over the carpet and threatening us with torture, while ignoring all attempts to ask them to show some respect. I can't believe anyone would resort to rude words after such totally acceptable behaviour.

Quick! Get the carpet-cleaner!

(January 9, 2016 at 10:23 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: ok here's a few more for u. The word for "moon" is mentioned 27 times and the word for "new moon" is mention 1 time totaling 28 which is the number of phases of the moon that orbits our planet.
The word "moon" is mentioned is ch.54 verse 1. If u count the remaining verses all the way to the end of the Qur'an there are 1,390 verses. The year 1390 of the Hijra(Islamic)calendar is equal to the year 1969 of the Gregorian calendar which we go by to this day. Of course we know that 1969 was the year that man first set foot on the moon.
 In 23:44 God says "thumMa ARSalnaa rasulanaa tatraa" which translates to "Then We sent our messengers in succession" now this verse doesn't mention anything astronomical in message. But wait look at letters I capitalized in quotation marks. The Arabic letters Mim(M) Alif(A) Ra® and Sin(S) appear in this order and spell "MARS". The next time these Arabic letters appear in this exact order is verse 23:45 which is exactly "1" verse later and it says "thumMa ARSalnaa moosaa wa akhaahu haaroona" which translates to "Then we sent Moses and his brother Aaron" again u see this has no astronomical message but u see "MARS" again 1 verse later, and guess what? Mars takes exactly "1 day" to rotate around its own axis. But wait gets better. Chapter 46 is Al-Ahqaf which means "Sand dunes" in 46:23 it says "MA uRSil'tu bihi" meaning "what I am sent with". In verse 46:30 it says "unzila min ba'aDi MOoSaa" meaning "revealed after Moses". Now the capital letters here Dal(D)Mim(M)Waw(O)and Sin(S)in order spell "DMOS" the name of one of the moons that orbits Mars is called "Deimos". This is the only chapter these names are both mentioned together and with today's technology, scientists have recently discovered Mars is a planet completely covered with "sand dunes" which just so happens to be the name of this chapter.
In Arabic there is no letter "V" as in English and other languages. So the Arabic letter "W" is used to replace "V". In 8:72 it says "Wa ENUS tansurookum" meaning "And if they seek your help" The letters "WENUS" appear in order and the next verse where they appear again is in 11:3 "Wa ENUStaghfiru rabbakum" meaning "And seek forgiveness of your Lord". In 17:7 it says "Wa ENUSatum" or "If you do evil". It turns out that there are 243 verses between 8:72 and 11:3. Scientists have discovered it takes the planet Venus 243 days to revolve around the sun rotating on its own axis in an opposite direction of other planets. But to go further it rotates on an angle of 177 degrees (17:7).
The letters in Arabic all have numerical value just as Roman Numerals (I=1 V=5 X=10 etc). Chapter 57 is Al-Hadyd or The Iron. If u take the numerical value of the letters without vowels (H)=8 (D)=4 (Y)=10 (D)=4 they equal 26. If u look at any elemental periodic table the atomic number for iron (Fe) is 26. Now if u add Al to make it Al-Hadyd or “The Iron” (A)=1 and (L)=30 which equal 31 plus 26 u get 57 which happens to be the number of the chapter in the Qur'an. Also being 114 Ch. in the entire Qur’an, 57 is exactly in the middle. Scientists have discovered that the middle of our Earth, the core consists of molten iron.

---

The number 19 is used thoroughly in the Qur’an. In 74:30 God says this is the number of angels guarding Hell. In 74:31 it is mentioned that this number will give the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) certainty, and also increase faith in the believers Muslims), and those who have diseases in their hearts and disbelieve will just shun it and say “Nothing was meant by that”. This verse comprises of 57 words or 19x3. The words in this chapter, prior to this verse are 95 or 19x5. If u count the letters all the way up to, but not including the word “nineteen” there are 361 letters or 19x19. Did all these 19s coincidently end up near the mention of the word nineteen? I don’t think so. Ch.96 consists of 19 verses and the first 5 verses are the first revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as he meditated in the cave. They are made up of 19 words. If u count the letters in these 5 verses they equal 76 which is 19x4. The entire amount of letters in that chapter are 285 or 19x15. The 72nd Ch. also has 285 words and this Ch. ends saying that God has taken everything into account “numerically”. Some Ch. begin with disjointed letters which only God knows the meaning for. In Ch. 42 and 50 they begin with the Arabic letter “Qaf” which is equivalent to ”Q” in English. The letter Qaf is used in each of these Ch. 57 times each or 19x3. Also with these 2 Ch. (42 and 50) the number of the Ch. added to the number of verses in the Ch. equal 95 or 19x5. As said b4 Jesus (pbuh) and Adam (pbuh) are both mentioned 25 times each. They are said to be like each other for the first time in Ch. 3 which happens the 7th time each name mentioned. They are not mentioned together again until they are mentioned in the same verse in Ch.19 which is the 19th time Adam (pbuh) is mentioned in the Qur’an and the 19th time Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned in the Qur’an. If we count the verses from the first time they’re both mentioned together to the last time they’re both mentioned together, there are 1,957 verses or 19x103. If we count all of the verse numbers in which Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned and add them together u also get 1,957 or 19x103.
God also mentions the creation and stages of the embryo inside a mother's womb. With x-rays and today's technology, it shows that every stage mentioned in the Qur'an is precise to the "T".
So how do all of these miracles, first off come from a man, especially living in that time period with no microscopes, satellites, telescopes, computers etc.? These that I have shared with u are nowhere near the total amount of miracles of the entire Qur'an. These are only a few of the ones that we have blessed by God Almighty to understand and tell others about. So when God challenges mankind to come up with, not a book but just a single chapter, that does not only rhyme and give a religious message but also every letter in it will be preserved for all time, and hold some value to being part of an entire miracle, it is to put man in his appropriate place and make him recognize and understand that the best knowledge is with God alone and no creature of God can ever design such a marvel, never could and never will, and God knows this and that is why He put forward challenge. It can never be accomplished. For God alone is Most High, Supreme in Glory.

Nice copy/paste without giving credit. Stealing must be a virtue in the Quran.

[www.youtube.com/watch?v=idHxegbSunQ]

(January 10, 2016 at 9:04 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 10:23 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: ok here's a few more for u. The word for "moon" is mentioned 27 times and the word for "new moon" is mention 1 time totaling 28 which is the number of phases of the moon that orbits our planet.
The word "moon" is mentioned is ch.54 verse 1. If u count the remaining verses all the way to the end of the Qur'an there are 1,390 verses. The year 1390 of the Hijra(Islamic)calendar is equal to the year 1969 of the Gregorian calendar which we go by to this day. Of course we know that 1969 was the year that man first set foot on the moon.
 In 23:44 God says "thumMa ARSalnaa rasulanaa tatraa" which translates to "Then We sent our messengers in succession" now this verse doesn't mention anything astronomical in message. But wait look at letters I capitalized in quotation marks. The Arabic letters Mim(M) Alif(A) Ra® and Sin(S) appear in this order and spell "MARS". The next time these Arabic letters appear in this exact order is verse 23:45 which is exactly "1" verse later and it says "thumMa ARSalnaa moosaa wa akhaahu haaroona" which translates to "Then we sent Moses and his brother Aaron" again u see this has no astronomical message but u see "MARS" again 1 verse later, and guess what? Mars takes exactly "1 day" to rotate around its own axis. But wait gets better. Chapter 46 is Al-Ahqaf which means "Sand dunes" in 46:23 it says "MA uRSil'tu bihi" meaning "what I am sent with". In verse 46:30 it says "unzila min ba'aDi MOoSaa" meaning "revealed after Moses". Now the capital letters here Dal(D)Mim(M)Waw(O)and Sin(S)in order spell "DMOS" the name of one of the moons that orbits Mars is called "Deimos". This is the only chapter these names are both mentioned together and with today's technology, scientists have recently discovered Mars is a planet completely covered with "sand dunes" which just so happens to be the name of this chapter.
In Arabic there is no letter "V" as in English and other languages. So the Arabic letter "W" is used to replace "V". In 8:72 it says "Wa ENUS tansurookum" meaning "And if they seek your help" The letters "WENUS" appear in order and the next verse where they appear again is in 11:3 "Wa ENUStaghfiru rabbakum" meaning "And seek forgiveness of your Lord". In 17:7 it says "Wa ENUSatum" or "If you do evil". It turns out that there are 243 verses between 8:72 and 11:3. Scientists have discovered it takes the planet Venus 243 days to revolve around the sun rotating on its own axis in an opposite direction of other planets. But to go further it rotates on an angle of 177 degrees (17:7).
The letters in Arabic all have numerical value just as Roman Numerals (I=1 V=5 X=10 etc). Chapter 57 is Al-Hadyd or The Iron. If u take the numerical value of the letters without vowels (H)=8 (D)=4 (Y)=10 (D)=4 they equal 26. If u look at any elemental periodic table the atomic number for iron (Fe) is 26. Now if u add Al to make it Al-Hadyd or “The Iron” (A)=1 and (L)=30 which equal 31 plus 26 u get 57 which happens to be the number of the chapter in the Qur'an. Also being 114 Ch. in the entire Qur’an, 57 is exactly in the middle. Scientists have discovered that the middle of our Earth, the core consists of molten iron.

---

The number 19 is used thoroughly in the Qur’an. In 74:30 God says this is the number of angels guarding Hell. In 74:31 it is mentioned that this number will give the People of the Book (Jews and Christians) certainty, and also increase faith in the believers Muslims), and those who have diseases in their hearts and disbelieve will just shun it and say “Nothing was meant by that”. This verse comprises of 57 words or 19x3. The words in this chapter, prior to this verse are 95 or 19x5. If u count the letters all the way up to, but not including the word “nineteen” there are 361 letters or 19x19. Did all these 19s coincidently end up near the mention of the word nineteen? I don’t think so. Ch.96 consists of 19 verses and the first 5 verses are the first revealed to Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as he meditated in the cave. They are made up of 19 words. If u count the letters in these 5 verses they equal 76 which is 19x4. The entire amount of letters in that chapter are 285 or 19x15. The 72nd Ch. also has 285 words and this Ch. ends saying that God has taken everything into account “numerically”. Some Ch. begin with disjointed letters which only God knows the meaning for. In Ch. 42 and 50 they begin with the Arabic letter “Qaf” which is equivalent to ”Q” in English. The letter Qaf is used in each of these Ch. 57 times each or 19x3. Also with these 2 Ch. (42 and 50) the number of the Ch. added to the number of verses in the Ch. equal 95 or 19x5. As said b4 Jesus (pbuh) and Adam (pbuh) are both mentioned 25 times each. They are said to be like each other for the first time in Ch. 3 which happens the 7th time each name mentioned. They are not mentioned together again until they are mentioned in the same verse in Ch.19 which is the 19th time Adam (pbuh) is mentioned in the Qur’an and the 19th time Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned in the Qur’an. If we count the verses from the first time they’re both mentioned together to the last time they’re both mentioned together, there are 1,957 verses or 19x103. If we count all of the verse numbers in which Jesus (pbuh) is mentioned and add them together u also get 1,957 or 19x103.
God also mentions the creation and stages of the embryo inside a mother's womb. With x-rays and today's technology, it shows that every stage mentioned in the Qur'an is precise to the "T".
So how do all of these miracles, first off come from a man, especially living in that time period with no microscopes, satellites, telescopes, computers etc.? These that I have shared with u are nowhere near the total amount of miracles of the entire Qur'an. These are only a few of the ones that we have blessed by God Almighty to understand and tell others about. So when God challenges mankind to come up with, not a book but just a single chapter, that does not only rhyme and give a religious message but also every letter in it will be preserved for all time, and hold some value to being part of an entire miracle, it is to put man in his appropriate place and make him recognize and understand that the best knowledge is with God alone and no creature of God can ever design such a marvel, never could and never will, and God knows this and that is why He put forward challenge. It can never be accomplished. For God alone is Most High, Supreme in Glory.

Nice copy/paste without giving credit. Stealing must be a virtue in the Quran.

[www.youtube.com/watch?v=idHxegbSunQ]

ur pretty sharp. I did copy and paste this after hearing a lecture on the miracles of the Qur'an. So giving all credit where credit is due, I of course give Allah the credit and praise for blessing us to learn of this knowledge and miracles He placed in the Qur'an. Then using it as a response to show Non-Muslim debaters, I give myself credit for typing an essay on it, on my Microsoft word program.

---

(January 10, 2016 at 2:22 am)Irrational Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

You're not paying attention at all to what people are telling you here, are you? How many times do we have to tell you numerology is something you can do with any large body of text?

So forget about all the mathematical miracles I mentioned. For sake of argument lets pretend they don't even exist. Since u as Atheists are well into scientific and astronomical beliefs, what is ur view on excusing these miracles that are listed in the Qur'an?

(January 10, 2016 at 6:46 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 10, 2016 at 9:04 am)mh.brewer Wrote: Nice copy/paste without giving credit. Stealing must be a virtue in the Quran.

[www.youtube.com/watch?v=idHxegbSunQ]

ur pretty sharp. I did copy and paste this after hearing a lecture on the miracles of the Qur'an. So giving all credit where credit is due, I of course give Allah the credit and praise for blessing us to learn of this knowledge and miracles He placed in the Qur'an. Then using it as a response to show Non-Muslim debaters, I give myself credit for typing an essay on it, on my Microsoft word program.

---

(January 10, 2016 at 2:22 am)Irrational Wrote: You're not paying attention at all to what people are telling you here, are you? How many times do we have to tell you numerology is something you can do with any large body of text?

So forget about all the mathematical miracles I mentioned. For sake of argument lets pretend they don't even exist. Since u as Atheists are well into scientific and astronomical beliefs, what is ur view on excusing these miracles that are listed in the Qur'an?

What scientific and astronomical miracles? What I usually get from Muslims are their modern interpretations of their text, but usually this means changing the original meaning of the verses to mean something they don't.

(January 10, 2016 at 6:46 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 10, 2016 at 9:04 am)mh.brewer Wrote:

---

 ice copy/paste without giving credit. Stealing must be a virtue in the Quran.

[www.youtube.com/watch?v=idHxegbSunQ]  

---

---

 ur pretty sharp. I did copy and paste this after hearing a lecture on the miracles of the Qur'an. So giving all credit where credit is due, I of course give Allah the credit and praise for blessing us to learn of this knowledge and miracles He placed in the Qur'an. Then using it as a response to show Non-Muslim debaters, I give myself credit for typing an essay on it, on my Microsoft word program.   

---

---

(January 10, 2016 at 2:22 am)Irrational Wrote:

Quote: You're not paying attention at all to what people are telling you here, are you? How many times do we have to tell you numerology is something you can do with any large body of text?

Quote:  So forget about all the mathematical miracles I mentioned. For sake of argument lets pretend they don't even exist. Since u as Atheists are well into scientific and astronomical beliefs, what is ur view on excusing these miracles that are listed in the Qur'an?  

They aren't miracles.  As many people have pointed out, the same results have been found in the Bible, the Talmud, the Bhagavad-Gita, the book of the Tao, the works of Confucious, etc.   It's a silly numbers game, attaching various numbers to letters, switching them around until you find something of interest, hunting for interesting matches, grasping at straws. Nothing that comes out of a book is going to provide any proof of the divine.  You can pick up a newspaper and get the same results.  You've been conned by a bunch of folks playing a kid's number-code game.
    Not only are we aware that numerology is total crap, but previous posts have pointed out the errors in your list.  You must have missed those too.
    Another poster noted that if the "coincidences" had just simply been there in the text for everyone to read - - scientific proofs, historical events, the lengths of solar system days and rotations, etc., THEN you might have something to discuss.  A book that actually predicted the future, in plain language, without need for any hidden messages requiring super-special-secret-spy decoder rings that you got out of a popcorn box - now that might actually be proof.

Sheed1980 Wrote:
   " The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. "

Really? That nasty pedophile snake-oil salesman was illiterate?  So, how did someone of his time write a book?  - - (wait for it) - like most of the people of his time and place, they would hire a scribe.  He probably found some young boy that was studying, so he'd be a cheap fuck at the same time.  That's why it took so long to write the books.  The young scribes kept growing up.  After all, if an angel had written the work, then if would have been too holy for a human to read or touch.  Something would have made it obviously different.  And he wouldn't need Muhammed at all.

"The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth." "Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes."

This is exactly the point. If god, who knows everything, would have used the book to explain why we have continents and glaciers and freshwater and salt water, and to explain DNA, the solar system, etc., well then the Qur'an might actually be proof of god's existence.  If it was full of knowledge that Muhammed could not possibly have known, there for everyone to read, without having to count words and play silly numerology games, that would be interesting.  These "hidden messages" and numerology "miracles" though, they are just crap from con men who take your money and laugh all the way to the bank.  Sometimes, they come from people who are so desperate to prove that their holy book is special that they spend years of time coming up with nonsense.  

If God wants to prove something to us now, he can just pop down here and hold a press meeting for the news.  He doesn't have to hide messages where only a special few can find them.

The Quran is proof of the quran, just like the bible and other holy books, it is circular to think of it as any kind of proof.