(January 9, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Irrational Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:28 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: would u like a different mathematical, or how about a scientific miracle, or an astronomical miracle, or just a linguistic miracle?

You have low standards for what constitutes miracles.

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Irrational Wrote: You have low standards for what constitutes miracles.

well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Irrational Wrote: You have low standards for what constitutes miracles.

well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

(January 9, 2016 at 6:28 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 12:00 pm)drfuzzy Wrote: No one has to change a single letter to do the ridiculous math trick that was described.  And the same trick that was done on the Qur'an has been done, in the same way, with similar results, to many, many other books.  It's just a silly math game, and nothing more.  It would work on a newspaper - any newspaper, any section.

would u like a different mathematical, or how about a scientific miracle, or an astronomical miracle, or just a linguistic miracle?

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:33 pm)Irrational Wrote: You have low standards for what constitutes miracles.

well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

Quote:This could easily be an Onion or Clickhole article.

(January 9, 2016 at 9:42 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

The vast majority of this ridiculous diatribe is based upon fairy tales in "holy" books.  No proof of most of it.  The rest is just numbers.  No proof of god there either.

(January 9, 2016 at 8:19 pm)Aegon Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 7:54 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: well that's what most people don't understand. They think a miracle has to be something that appears out of the blue or goes against science and nature. I'm not saying that when these kind of things happen they aren't miracles, because a miracle is an act of God that cannot be produced without His will and power. Here's the way it happened. God sent a prophet to every nation of people He created. This way the prophet was able to speak to his people in their own native tongue, so they could understand the message to worship God alone. There have been over 120,000 prophets sent since the beginning of mankind all over the world. So for example when a Hebrew prophet was sent they called God "Yahweh" the Hebrew name for God. Whereas if an English speaking prophet was sent he would call God "God" the English name for God. And if a Spanish prophet was sent he would call God "Dios". They all refer to the same Supreme Being just in different languages. Now I'm just using these 3 languages as examples. I don't know for sure if English or Spanish had even existed the way Hebrew and many other languages did. Anyway to use some well known prophetic names. In prophet Moses'(pbuh)time the people then were highly arrogant because of their knowledge of magic. So God sent Moses(pbuh)with miracles that out performed the peoples' trickery, such as his rod turning into a serpent and back into a rod, and Moses(pbuh)being a dark skinned desert man, placing his hand in his bosom and it glowed white like the moon, and also his parting the sea. These were all acts of God(miracles)which God used through His prophet Moses(pbuh)to let these people know, no matter how knowledgeable of magic and trickery they were they could not out perform God's Almighty power. So if they follow Moses, he will guide them to God. Just as in Jesus'(pbuh)time, the people then were highly arrogant due to their knowledge of medicine. So first God sends His prophet Jesus(pbuh)born of a virgin woman, basically saying: What medicine can you people come up with that can impregnate a virgin woman? Then with God's will and power Jesus(pbuh)healed lepers, cured the blind, and even raised the dead among other miracles. So God shows these people their knowledge of medicine was nothing compared to His Almighty power which He showed them through His prophet Jesus(pbuh). Now in prophet Muhammad's(pbuh)time the people were arrogant because of their knowledge of poetry and linguistics. The Arabs of this land would sometimes have words that had 100 synonyms. So what God used here was His scripture The Holy Qur'an, through Muhammad(pbuh)who was an illiterate man.. Everyone who knew him knew he was unlearned and could not read nor write. By doing this God showed that this scripture couldn't be produced by a human being, therefore could only come from God Himself. The Qur'an was first revealed to Muhammad(pbuh)from God through the Angel Gabriel in the year 610. The entire Qur'an was revealed over a 23 year period verses at a time. Since Muhammad was an Arab the language he spoke was Arabic which is why we are called "Muslims" which is Arabic for "Submitters to God" and why we call God "Allah" simply the Arabic name for God. The difference between Muhammad(pbuh)and all other prophets is that they were only sent to their own nation of people, whereas Muhammad(pbuh)was not just sent to the Arabs, but for the rest of mankind. When reading the Qur'an in Arabic the verses rhyme. But the message is much bigger than that. God says here what poetry can you people come up with that not only gives a religious message, rhymes, but has scientific, mathematical, astronomical, and linguistic miracles that no one except God could have knowledge of? For instance the word for day appears throughout the Qur'an exactly 365 times. The word for month appears exactly 12 times. The word for sea appears 32 times and the word for land appears 13 times. 32+13=45. 32/45=71.11% the exact percentage of water that covers the Earth and 13/45=28.89% the exact percentage of land that covers the Earth. Angels and devils are compared with each other and they both are used 88 times each. This life and Hereafter are each used 115 times. Man and woman are each used 23 times and males and females each have 23 sex chromosomes as well. Ch. 16 is The Honeybee, scientists today have discovered that the bee has 16 chromosomes. I should also mention that these words are not all used in the same verses like man and woman, man and woman. But are scattered throughout the Qur’an which remember I said didn’t all come down at one time, but verses at a time over a 23 year period. So what human being, who can’t read or write, would be able to keep up with how many times a specific word was used in a book containing 6236 verses in 114 chapters, over a 23 year period? I could see if just 1 or 2 of these miracles appeared, they could be considered a coincidence, but with all of these and so many more , which I would be more than happy to share with u, show that all of this could only be produced by God Allah.

This could easily be an Onion or Clickhole article.

(January 9, 2016 at 9:40 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:28 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: would u like a different mathematical, or how about a scientific miracle, or an astronomical miracle, or just a linguistic miracle?

Yes please!  I would love a miracle!!!
Here are the requirements:  the miracle must occur in front of a scientific team that has the equipment to verify the occurrence.  It must be clear and obvious that this occurrence could not take place if constrained by our current knowledge of physics, etc.  The miracle needs to be something currently defined as IMPOSSIBLE, verified by multiple scientific testing.  It would also, to be defined as a miracle, not exist as a result of any human action.  
    Then it would need to be distributed across the globe, for verification.  

    A causative agent would need to step up, take credit, and explain.  If this did not occur, the "miracle" would clearly be a natural phenomena that was in need of further investigation.

(January 9, 2016 at 9:40 pm)drfuzzy Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 6:28 pm)Sheed1980 Wrote: would u like a different mathematical, or how about a scientific miracle, or an astronomical miracle, or just a linguistic miracle?

Yes please!  I would love a miracle!!!
Here are the requirements:  the miracle must occur in front of a scientific team that has the equipment to verify the occurrence.  It must be clear and obvious that this occurrence could not take place if constrained by our current knowledge of physics, etc.  The miracle needs to be something currently defined as IMPOSSIBLE, verified by multiple scientific testing.  It would also, to be defined as a miracle, not exist as a result of any human action.  
    Then it would need to be distributed across the globe, for verification.  

    A causative agent would need to step up, take credit, and explain.  If this did not occur, the "miracle" would clearly be a natural phenomena that was in need of further investigation.