(January 14, 2016 at 3:03 pm)AAA Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I wasn't telling you that you have to prove it. I was aking how you might even suspect it in the first place. Please deactivate your martyr chip. But it's fine, if you don't consider it something worth defending or pursuing, I can do that too.

I first thought of it when I watched a documentary on UFOs. There are alleged claims (no I can't prove these to be true) of military fighter jets tracking UFOs, and having them on radar, and then the UFOs disappearing off of the radar, indicating that it was no longer there. Also, many "supernatural phenomena" could be explained by this, such as claims of ghostly figures appearing in our 3D realm, then disappearing. Obviously I know that almost all UFOs and supernatural claims have other explanations, but for the remaining ones, I just thought that a higher dimension could explain how they could allegedly enter our reality and leave it that quickly. I then thought that it could maybe apply to God as well. Capable of being literally right next to you just outside of our dimension, similar to the way a 3D creature (us) could be infinitely close to a 2D realm, and observe 2D creatures without them detecting us. This is JUST A THOUGHT. 

Prediction: People are going to rip this comment apart demanding proof.

Yes, a higher dimension could explain those things.

But the time to start believing that higher dimensions are the explanation is when there is demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument to support the claim, and not a second before.

Until then, what is the justification to believe it to be true? Same with your god claims.

Double post.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:07 pm)AAA Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 2:27 pm)Beccs Wrote: Which one?

Hundreds, if not thousands of people have claimed to be the son or daughter or direct incarnation of various gods.  Should we believe them all on the merits of their claims?

No, you shouldn't believe all of them. But at some point the high number of people claiming something does become significant. If everyone on earth except you claimed to have seen bigfoot, would you believe it or still need to see it for yourself?

You don't need to see it, you need clear evidence of it.

Millions of people claim to have been abducted by aliens. 

The point being, why believe ANYTHING on a claim, without evidence?

(January 14, 2016 at 3:07 pm)AAA Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 2:27 pm)Beccs Wrote: Which one?

Hundreds, if not thousands of people have claimed to be the son or daughter or direct incarnation of various gods.  Should we believe them all on the merits of their claims?

But at some point the high number of people claiming something does become significant.

Yeah, just like the when the vast majority of humanity used to believe the earth was flat, right?

Quote:If everyone on earth except you claimed to have seen bigfoot, would you believe it or still need to see it for yourself?

At that point, they'd be able to provide other demonstrable evidence to support their claim, that would not require that I see a bigfoot.

I believe atoms exist, without ever seeing one, because of the other evidence available.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:03 pm)AAA Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 2:56 pm)Stimbo Wrote: I wasn't telling you that you have to prove it. I was aking how you might even suspect it in the first place. Please deactivate your martyr chip. But it's fine, if you don't consider it something worth defending or pursuing, I can do that too.

I first thought of it when I watched a documentary on UFOs. There are alleged claims (no I can't prove these to be true) of military fighter jets tracking UFOs, and having them on radar, and then the UFOs disappearing off of the radar, indicating that it was no longer there. Also, many "supernatural phenomena" could be explained by this, such as claims of ghostly figures appearing in our 3D realm, then disappearing. Obviously I know that almost all UFOs and supernatural claims have other explanations, but for the remaining ones, I just thought that a higher dimension could explain how they could allegedly enter our reality and leave it that quickly. I then thought that it could maybe apply to God as well. Capable of being literally right next to you just outside of our dimension, similar to the way a 3D creature (us) could be infinitely close to a 2D realm, and observe 2D creatures without them detecting us. This is JUST A THOUGHT. 

Prediction: People are going to rip this comment apart demanding proof.

Hey - there's only room for one prophet around here! Work the other side of the street!

In fact, I don't see any value in asking - let alone "demanding" - proof (or even evidence - learn the difference) for unfalsifiable things. I was just going to point out that positing a less-credible and unprovable explanation than rather more mundane yet plausible ones isn't a particularly tenable approach to discerning reality, that's all. Basically, when you hear hoofbeats, first eliminate horses (not literally, in a weird Equus kind of way) before concluding unicorns.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:10 pm)Simon Moon Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 3:03 pm)AAA Wrote: I first thought of it when I watched a documentary on UFOs. There are alleged claims (no I can't prove these to be true) of military fighter jets tracking UFOs, and having them on radar, and then the UFOs disappearing off of the radar, indicating that it was no longer there. Also, many "supernatural phenomena" could be explained by this, such as claims of ghostly figures appearing in our 3D realm, then disappearing. Obviously I know that almost all UFOs and supernatural claims have other explanations, but for the remaining ones, I just thought that a higher dimension could explain how they could allegedly enter our reality and leave it that quickly. I then thought that it could maybe apply to God as well. Capable of being literally right next to you just outside of our dimension, similar to the way a 3D creature (us) could be infinitely close to a 2D realm, and observe 2D creatures without them detecting us. This is JUST A THOUGHT. 

Prediction: People are going to rip this comment apart demanding proof.

Yes, a higher dimension could  explain those things.

But the time to start believing that higher dimensions are the explanation is when there is demonstrable evidence and reasoned argument to support the claim, and not a second before.

Until then, what is the justification to believe it to be true? Same with your god claims.

You just don't get the fact that I am not claiming the dimensional thing to be fact. 

The God claims are based on the presence of qualities only known to be the product of a designing intelligence found in cells and the universe. We don't jump to God directly from this though. Just that they are best explained as the product of intelligence.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:24 pm)AAA Wrote: The God claims are based on the presence of qualities only known to be the product of a designing intelligence found in cells and the universe. We don't jump to God directly from this though. Just that they are best explained as the product of intelligence.

Absurdly wrong.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:24 pm)AAA Wrote: The God claims are based on the presence of qualities only known to be the product of a designing intelligence found in cells and the universe. We don't jump to God directly from this though. Just that they are best explained as the product of intelligence.

Only if you lack any imagination or breadth of learning.

As has been pointed out countless times, please point to something found existing in nature which does not appear well designed. Everything is as it is as the result of its deep structure. There is an inevitability of how things stand, but that deep structure wasn't something added by a genie. In order for intelligent design to be anything at all, you'd need to show that there is no deep, pervasive structure which accounts for order. Because that order is everywhere and it is impossible to imagine a things existing in some other state while waiting for intelligent design to be added.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:15 pm)Beccs Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 3:07 pm)AAA Wrote: No, you shouldn't believe all of them. But at some point the high number of people claiming something does become significant. If everyone on earth except you claimed to have seen bigfoot, would you believe it or still need to see it for yourself?

You don't need to see it, you need clear evidence of it.

Millions of people claim to have been abducted by aliens. 

The point being, why believe ANYTHING on a claim, without evidence?

I guess you don't have to believe anything just on a claim, but I personally don't think it is a good life philosophy to require evidence for everything. If someone you know tells you they got a new TV, would you demand to go to their house before you would believe them? If people have no motive to lie, then we don't need to require them to justify every single claim they have. Still I think that if we go with the alien example, and everyone but you claimed to have been abducted, you would eventually have to concede that there is some phenomenon behind it, even if they didn't have material evidence. The eye witness is definitely weak evidence, but it shouldn't just be dismissed.

(January 14, 2016 at 3:27 pm)ApeNotKillApe Wrote:

(January 14, 2016 at 3:24 pm)AAA Wrote: The God claims are based on the presence of qualities only known to be the product of a designing intelligence found in cells and the universe. We don't jump to God directly from this though. Just that they are best explained as the product of intelligence.

Absurdly wrong.

This has been done to death, but if we must go back to the presence of a genetic code, a protein code, and a molecule (tRNA) to connect the languages, we can.