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~~Excited Penguin~~ · (This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 4:43 am by Excited Penguin.)

(February 1, 2016 at 4:39 am)SteelCurtain Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:03 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: I think the better question is, why not say that?

Because it implies (whether you meant or want it to or not) that they are doing something wrong or counter to your vision of the thread. Especially when you say it every three posts. And especially when you do something else 5 times.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:03 am)Excited Penguin Wrote: I think you are getting this whole thing totally wrong. Let me start over.

This thread is meant for discussion/brainstorming various ideas. How or what you talk about is not for me to tell you, although as OP, I do have that privilege(something which is universally accepted elsewhere on the forums).
Now that we've got that handled, my role as OP is over. Now I'm just a regular poster. I post the first question. A discussion begins. Someone makes fun of me. I tell them to stay on topic, as a fellow poster, not as anyone else.

That's just it, EP. You telling someone else to stay on topic is 1) attempting to moderate other users and 2) implying that there is a topic to be adhered to.

Regarding #1) Not your job.
Regarding #2) You keep alternately telling people that there is no topic, and then whining in the next post about how they are off-topic, and you won't deign to respond to them.

You are not required to respond to anything on this forum aside from official requests from staff, so you can choose who you want to respond to. But if all you do is whine when people don't do, act, post, reply like you want, don't bitch even more when no one takes you seriously.

Just because you pretended to be nice for three days doesn't mean everyone forgets all the shit you spew onto this forum on the regular. Your reputation precedes you, whether you like it or not. You made that bed, and you are trying to make everyone else sleep in it. Not gonna happen.

SteelCurtain · February 1, 2016 at 4:44 am

(February 1, 2016 at 4:30 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:
(February 1, 2016 at 4:28 am)Losty Wrote: Not all religious people have the same stance on either issue.

Sure. But stance itself is universally harmful as it's about forcing one beliefs onto other. Also in Poland such stances are kinda synonymous with religion or at least voicing such is popular among religious.

Do you mean the very idea of a stance about these issues is harmful? Or just the religious stance?

I think it's worthwhile to remember that there are people who wish to force acceptance of homosexuality or women's reproductive rights onto others just the same. I don't think that's right, either. Forced adherence to any viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, is fascism, and not how societies progress.

SteelCurtain · (This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 4:46 am by SteelCurtain.)

(February 1, 2016 at 4:40 am)Excited Penguin Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:39 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Because it implies (whether you meant or want it to or not) that they are doing something wrong or counter to your vision of the thread. Especially when you say it every three posts. And especially when you do something else 5 times.

That's just it, EP. You telling someone else to stay on topic is 1) attempting to moderate other users and 2) implying that there is a topic to be adhered to.

Regarding #1) Not your job.
Regarding #2) You keep alternately telling people that there is no topic, and then whining in the next post about how they are off-topic, and you won't deign to respond to them.

You are not required to respond to anything on this forum aside from official requests from staff, so you can choose who you want to respond to. But if all you do is whine when people don't do, act, post, reply like you want, don't bitch even more when no one takes you seriously.

Just because you pretended to be nice for three days doesn't mean everyone forgets all the shit you spew onto this forum on the regular. Your reputation precedes you, whether you like it or not. You made that bed, and you are trying to make everyone else sleep in it. Not gonna happen.

I don't agree and why should I care for your opinion?
I'll tell people what I want this thread to be like all I want. If you don't like it, that's too bad.

Now, please, take your whining elsewhere. People are trying to discuss about something other than me for a change.

Case in point.

Thanks, EP.

Losty · February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am

(February 1, 2016 at 4:40 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:
(February 1, 2016 at 4:33 am)Losty Wrote: Maybe, but there are atheists who are against abortion, their are atheists who are against gay marriage, and believe it or not there are atheists who wish to force their ideas and beliefs on other people.

For me atheists being against abortion or gay marriage are like Yeti, I only heard about it, but seeing it I consider improbable. And sure there may be atheists wanting to force their ideas onto others. They should be criticized like anyone else.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:33 am)Losty Wrote: So if this is your standard for deciding that religion is bad, you might find that you actually think human beings in general are bad.

Religion also robs of freedom by indoctrinating, it could sap happiness from life as it is only transitory period and it's in essence against freedom. Maybe in some civilized countries religious authoritarianism is held in check by secular authorities but it is not the case where I live.

As for humans in general, I would say that most are simply indifferent not bad.

How would getting rid of religion not rob freedoms or force your opinions/beliefs onto others?

Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

If you think no atheists wish to rob people of their freedoms to make their own choices and have their own beliefs, simply read back through this thread where I have interacted with Kitan and you will see that some atheists do want to push their beliefs on others.

SteelCurtain · February 1, 2016 at 4:50 am

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

The forum owner is one such atheist.

Ivan Denisovich · (This post was last modified: February 1, 2016 at 4:57 am by Ivan Denisovich.)

(February 1, 2016 at 4:44 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Do you mean the very idea of a stance about these issues is harmful? Or just the religious stance?

To be clear - stance saying that x should be deprived of rights cause I find them horrible or they are against my religion is something that I find abhorrent. I couldn't care less if someone likes or dislike abortion for example, but why others should be able to strip her of right to choose?

(February 1, 2016 at 4:44 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I think it's worthwhile to remember that there are people who wish to force acceptance of homosexuality or women's reproductive rights onto others just the same. I don't think that's right, either. Forced adherence to any viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, is fascism, and not how societies progress.

Acceptance while would be good as what we are talking about isn't something bad or harmful isn't necessary. It will be enough if women had right to choose abortion and homosexuals had right to marriage. Enemies of such can cry about godlessness of it how long they want.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: How would getting rid of religion not rob freedoms or force your opinions/beliefs onto others?

Education and improving life conditions would go a long way to eradicating religion same as learning of critical thinking I would say. No legislation is necessary. Also I don't think that eliminating of religion is possible.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

It's more than strange for me. Universe never cease to wonder one could say.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: If you think no atheists wish to rob people of their freedoms to make their own choices and have their own beliefs, simply read back through this thread where I have interacted with Kitan and you will see that some atheists do want to push their beliefs on others.

I think there are such atheists.

~~Excited Penguin~~ · February 1, 2016 at 4:54 am

I am for banning religious institutions that protect a hateful mentality against certain groups of people. There's a fine line between one maintaing his freedom and one's limiting another's freedom. I believe a lot of religions are demonstrably instigative of violent behaviour and thus should be treated as such.

~~Excited Penguin~~ · February 1, 2016 at 4:57 am

You can believe anything you want. But if you believe for example that you should murder jews, I think your freedom of speech should be policed in that particular instance, so as to not influence other people to think the same and eventually murder some jews.

It's the same with religions. This is all I'm talking about when I say they should be policed to some extent, if not even banned altogether from the public forum.

Losty · (August 21, 2017 at 11:31 pm)

(February 1, 2016 at 4:52 am)Ivan Denisovich Wrote:

(February 1, 2016 at 4:44 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: Do you mean the very idea of a stance about these issues is harmful? Or just the religious stance?

To be clear - stance saying that x should be deprived of rights cause I find them horrible or they are against my religion is something that I find abhorrent. I couldn't care less if someone likes or dislike abortion for example, but why others should be able to strip her of right to choose?

(February 1, 2016 at 4:44 am)SteelCurtain Wrote: I think it's worthwhile to remember that there are people who wish to force acceptance of homosexuality or women's reproductive rights onto others just the same. I don't think that's right, either. Forced adherence to any viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, is fascism, and not how societies progress.

Acceptance while would be good as what we are talking about isn't something bad or harmful isn't necessary. It will be enough if women had right to choose abortion and homosexuals had right to marriage. Enemies of such can cry about godlessness of it how long they want.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: How would getting rid of religion not rob freedoms or force your opinions/beliefs onto others?

Education and improving life conditions would go a long way to eradicating religion same as learning of critical thinking I would say. No legislation is necessary. Also I don't think that eliminating of religion is possible.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

It's more than strange for me. Universe never cease to wonder one could say.

(February 1, 2016 at 4:48 am)Losty Wrote: If you think no atheists wish to rob people of their freedoms to make their own choices and have their own beliefs, simply read back through this thread where I have interacted with Kitan and you will see that some atheists do want to push their beliefs on others.

I think there are such atheists.

Ahhh....well then I think we are mostly in agreement.

Education and improving life conditions to filter out as much of the harmful religion as we can, but eradicating religion altogether....its just not going to happen.

SteelCurtain · February 1, 2016 at 5:00 am

Who gets to decide which religious ideas should be banned, EP?

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