Brainstorm

[Excited Penguin]

[SteelCurtain]

Not all religious people have the same stance on either issue.

Sure. But stance itself is universally harmful as it's about forcing one beliefs onto other. Also in Poland such stances are kinda synonymous with religion or at least voicing such is popular among religious.

Do you mean the very idea of a stance about these issues is harmful? Or just the religious stance?

I think it's worthwhile to remember that there are people who wish to force acceptance of homosexuality or women's reproductive rights onto others just the same. I don't think that's right, either. Forced adherence to any viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, is fascism, and not how societies progress.

[SteelCurtain]

[Losty]

Maybe, but there are atheists who are against abortion, their are atheists who are against gay marriage, and believe it or not there are atheists who wish to force their ideas and beliefs on other people.

For me atheists being against abortion or gay marriage are like Yeti, I only heard about it, but seeing it I consider improbable. And sure there may be atheists wanting to force their ideas onto others. They should be criticized like anyone else.

So if this is your standard for deciding that religion is bad, you might find that you actually think human beings in general are bad.

Religion also robs of freedom by indoctrinating, it could sap happiness from life as it is only transitory period and it's in essence against freedom. Maybe in some civilized countries religious authoritarianism is held in check by secular authorities but it is not the case where I live.

As for humans in general, I would say that most are simply indifferent not bad.

How would getting rid of religion not rob freedoms or force your opinions/beliefs onto others?

Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

If you think no atheists wish to rob people of their freedoms to make their own choices and have their own beliefs, simply read back through this thread where I have interacted with Kitan and you will see that some atheists do want to push their beliefs on others.

[SteelCurtain]

Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

The forum owner is one such atheist.

[Ivan Denisovich]

Do you mean the very idea of a stance about these issues is harmful? Or just the religious stance?

To be clear - stance saying that x should be deprived of rights cause I find them horrible or they are against my religion is something that I find abhorrent. I couldn't care less if someone likes or dislike abortion for example, but why others should be able to strip her of right to choose?

I think it's worthwhile to remember that there are people who wish to force acceptance of homosexuality or women's reproductive rights onto others just the same. I don't think that's right, either. Forced adherence to any viewpoint, whether we agree with it or not, is fascism, and not how societies progress.

Acceptance while would be good as what we are talking about isn't something bad or harmful isn't necessary. It will be enough if women had right to choose abortion and homosexuals had right to marriage. Enemies of such can cry about godlessness of it how long they want.

How would getting rid of religion not rob freedoms or force your opinions/beliefs onto others?

Education and improving life conditions would go a long way to eradicating religion same as learning of critical thinking I would say. No legislation is necessary. Also I don't think that eliminating of religion is possible.

Also, I have spoken to atheists on this very forum who are against abortion and/or marriage equality.

It's more than strange for me. Universe never cease to wonder one could say.

If you think no atheists wish to rob people of their freedoms to make their own choices and have their own beliefs, simply read back through this thread where I have interacted with Kitan and you will see that some atheists do want to push their beliefs on others.

I think there are such atheists.

[Excited Penguin]

I am for banning religious institutions that protect a hateful mentality against certain groups of people. There's a fine line between one maintaing his freedom and one's limiting another's freedom. I believe a lot of religions are demonstrably instigative of violent behaviour and thus should be treated as such.

[Excited Penguin]

You can believe anything you want. But if you believe for example that you should murder jews, I think your freedom of speech should be policed in that particular instance, so as to not influence other people to think the same and eventually murder some jews.

It's the same with religions. This is all I'm talking about when I say they should be policed to some extent, if not even banned altogether from the public forum.

[Losty]

[SteelCurtain]

Who gets to decide which religious ideas should be banned, EP?