I'm afraid I don't know a lot about American politics, except "For god's sake don't vote for Trump".

Also, "For god's sake, do go out and vote for someone except Trump, so he doesn't get in via apathy of opposition".

I don't know that much about british politics either, although I did make a special effort to try and get into it at the last election. Sadly, it seems to mainly come down to posturing, slandering, and making promises that (for some reason) are rarely kept after the election yet no action is taken about it.

(February 15, 2016 at 7:02 am)robvalue Wrote: I'm afraid I don't know a lot about American politics, except "For god's sake don't vote for Trump".

Also, "For god's sake, do go out and vote for someone except Trump, so he doesn't get in via apathy of opposition".

I don't know that much about british politics either, although I did make a special effort to try and get into it at the last election. Sadly, it seems to mainly come down to posturing, slandering, and making promises that (for some reason) are rarely kept after the election yet no action is taken about it.

So no opinion on Jeremy Corbyn?

I live in a country that, since 1975 has had two parties in government, the socialist party (PS) and the social-democratic party (PSD).

To tell the truth, they're sort of similar, for the most part.
But there are a few important differences.
PS is what we call center-left, while PSD is center-right.
PS takes a bit more care of the social part by taxing more on businesses and harmful goods (like tobacco and gas) and taxing less on the common people.
PSD goes a bit the other way, increasing taxes like VAT (that affect everyone) while relaxing some business taxation. Also, the stock market around here has been remarkably exempt from taxes... no, I lie... it's taxed at something like half VAT. Economists like this approach a lot - it seems the belief in the trickle down economics is still firmly believed in... in spite of the brutal truth that the 1% keep increasing their share of the world's wealth.

PS's way of encouraging businesses is to simplify the huge load of bureaucracy that is required around here... I can't say it's at a German level of paper-work, but damned close!

At the same time, PS assigns a larger share of the budget to social purposes, like healthcare and science&education, while PSD was on its merry way to defund science and hospitals, and privatize as much as possible...

Regarding privatizations, Portugal's airline, TAP, is mostly owned by the state. And it's been heading the privatization way for a while... the new PS government put a stop to that. The rationale is that TAP must maintain some connections to portuguese speaking countries, like Brazil, Angola, Mozambique and others... and the private sector might not see much profit in some of those connections... or in their frequency...

(February 15, 2016 at 7:32 am)Irrational Wrote: So no opinion on Jeremy Corbyn?

Jeremy Corbyn is the best thing to happen to the Conservative party since Ed Miliband.

I don't know what to make of Corbyn.

His name is an anagram of Nobcry, that can't be good.

Quote:I'm afraid I don't know a lot about American politics, except "For god's sake don't vote for Trump any of those republicunt morons".

Fixed that for you.

Republicans have it etched into their mind that any form of socialism is a terrible, horrible thing. This is why they consider guys like Joseph McCarthy their hero. Many of them have tied Democratic Socialism not just to Socialism, but to Communism as well. They believe that the government should only spend money on Wars. Everything else should be left up to the public sector.

It was easy for them to create hate against socialism. They paint people as just wanting 'free stuff'. "They all want a free ride, they don't want to work for what they have." Of course the Republicans are careful not to say that they want to do away with public education entirely. But that is certainly one of their goals. To get rid of all public services except the ones that they feel are necessary for the survival of America. That is: The police and Military. They preach competition is a good thing, ignoring the fact that many successful people have made it by cheating good honest people. They ignore how society needs more than just policing.

It's easy for them to create arguments against socialism, because on the surface they make sense.

"Why should I have to pay for someone else to go to college?"

Well yeah, that does sound horrible. However, only a small portion of your taxes would be going toward putting people through college. This helps create an increase in the number of doctors, lawyers, and other professions that we need more of. Furthermore it creates a better educated populace which leads to better decisions being made. And those people will eventually themselves pay for others to go to college by getting good jobs, and contributing more to the economy as well as society.

"Don't we all deserve a choice? That's why I support school vouchers. Public schools are just indoctrination centers. We need REAL competition"

School choice sounds like a good idea... until you realize that we have for-profit universities that are failing terribly. Yes, there are some good private schools out there. But we need to improve our public schools. Not everyone can afford to go to private schools, and private schools can turn down whoever they like. I'm sure the same pro-school choice guys wouldn't be so happy if private schools were forced to accept students, and couldn't kick them out. Public Schools on the other hand turn down nobody. They have to accept everybody, some of whom were thrown out of private school. Private Schools have an advantage in scores because they can be selective with their students. But everyone deserves an education. Not every parent has time to take their kids to private school either.

"Welfare abuse is eating us alive. The Surfer Bum is eating lobster."

Welfare abuse isn't nearly as bad as people are claiming it is. The Surfer Bum is part of a minority of people on welfare. Everything has abuse, that doesn't mean we should get rid of it.

Republicans want to cut just about everything. What they don't seem to cut however is anything that's actually worthless and could actually save money. Their financial conservatism is nothing more than empty rhetoric. If they had the chance, they'd certainly cut public spending on things they don't like. But they'd very much ignore the real wastes of government like they do now.

(February 15, 2016 at 7:48 am)pocaracas Wrote: I live in a country that, since 1975 has had two parties in government, the socialist party (PS) and the social-democratic party (PSD).

Yeah, in my country the conservatives also call themselves People's party, although they are nothing like that. They're all about big business.

In fact, American partisan labels kind of amuse me and kind of scare me. What's called conservative over there, would be far right in Europe. Aka Republican. Some more, some less. What's called Democrat, would be mainstream conservative. Obama would make a mainstream conservative in Europe. Maybe a bit to the right, but still mainstream. Bernie's agenda is social democratic. Keeping big business in check but in no way abolishing it.

I don't think the OP quites comprehends the shallowness of the fascist right in this country.  Not only will they blubber ad nauseam about Sanders being a SOCIALIST but they'll be perfectly happy to point out that he is a DEMOCRAT, too.

They are both scare words for the Great Unwashed of the right.

(February 15, 2016 at 5:06 pm)Minimalist Wrote: They are both scare words for the Great Unwashed of the right.

One wonders why. And it's not only America for that matter. Otherwise rghtwing extremists wouldn't get that strong all over the world. Probably because they need someone weaker to kick. And that's exactly what rightwingers present. The only thing.