So, I go to a Christian school. I take Ethics, and was just assigned a project, research topic, to give a formal essay on ethical controversial issues in modern day society.

There was a giant list. Literally almost every controversial topic you could think of.


I chose; Abortion.

Now, as an atheist, I have no problem pointing out flaws in others reasoning, and I have no problem going against the status quo in the class room. That's why I picked it. The vast majority of my class sees this as a settled discussion, in fact one girl questioned me as to why I didn't pick one that had more of a "debate" aspect to it. They pretty much all see it as a murder, that should be outlawed.

Now, evidently from reading that you can tell I don't have a problem with abortion as long as it's done under proper medical care and all the requirements are met. I'm pro choice.


My question for you guys is what advice can you give me on this subject? Whether that be ways to convince them, or points, comparisons, facts, etc. What's your advice for me?

Tell 'em it's just tough love! Hehe

Point out all the bible stuff that does not jibe with infants being people, let alone fetuses.

You can stir up some abortion controversy by proving the religious folks objecting to it these days have NOTHING to stand on when it comes to their precious bible.

And without bible justification, they are just hypocrites/apostates/blasphemers/heretics.

Leave religion out of it. The position I'd take: "Is it ethical to force your (anyone's) beliefs on another individual in our society?". Don't let them go down the "committing a crime" road. The supreme court says it's not a crime. Give other examples, the freedoms our country affords, free speech, free assembly, free press, free choice, civil rights. Throw in free religion is you like.

(February 25, 2016 at 7:57 pm)Heat Wrote: Whether that be ways to convince them, or points, comparisons, facts, etc. What's your advice for me?

First, I highly doubt, you will convince any of the really religious types. They have their preconceived opinion, and as long as they listen to their pastor/priest, they will be afraid to even contemplate it in their minds.

Apart from that, you have medicine on your side. When life actually starts vs the period when abortion is actually allowed.

But, as I said, don't be surprised if you don't convince anyone and be shunned on the side.

When debating this issue, it's important to qualify a few points from the outset:

1. It's crucial to understand the developmental phase of the foetus at the time of proposed abortion: foetal viability occurs at ~20 weeks and I don't know of any nation which makes elective (not medically necessary) abortion legal past this point.
2. There are circumstances when abortion might be recommended due to the medical impacts on the life of the mother or foetus. If the mother would be killed as a result of the gestative process or birth, there's room to argue that abortion is preferable. Likewise, if the length and/or quality of life of the foetus, once born, is drastically degraded.

The purpose of making these points is to take the argument out of the black/white 'God says it's wrong' zone and put it, rightly, in to the grey 'here's a serious issue with individual & social repercussions which needs serious intellectual consideration and community effort' zone. Your first task is to get your audience thinking.

Then you can move on to the Right to Bodily Autonomy as one of the strongest ethical arguments for elective abortion, certainly for early-stage (first trimester) abortions, when coupled with current medical knowledge about foetal viability.

That would give you a good start but remember that there's no single answer on whether abortion is right but it should be a personal choice, which the government should not mandate against. So don't try to get your audience to completely agree with you, just focus on discrediting the biblical view with reason and evidence and most people's senses of empathy, dignity and compassion will do the rest.

Oh boy. Debating theists who are trying to pretend their views aren't just based on religious dogma? Sounds painful.

Looks like you've already been given great advice here.

In case they do pull some religious shit, here's some ammunition. Versus in the bible that support abortion.

If they think it is murder, then both the woman and the doctor should be up on murder charges. Ask them why they aren't.

Also any genocide scenario that God either encouraged or actively carried out. And every miscarriage ever. And the entire concept of death in general.

Don't take any wooden nickles from Scoobs!

(February 25, 2016 at 7:57 pm)Heat Wrote: So, I go to a Christian school. I take Ethics, and was just assigned a project, research topic, to give a formal essay on ethical controversial issues in modern day society.

There was a giant list. Literally almost every controversial topic you could think of.


I chose; Abortion.

Now, as an atheist, I have no problem pointing out flaws in others reasoning, and I have no problem going against the status quo in the class room. That's why I picked it. The vast majority of my class sees this as a settled discussion, in fact one girl questioned me as to why I didn't pick one that had more of a "debate" aspect to it. They pretty much all see it as a murder, that should be outlawed.

Now, evidently from reading that you can tell I don't have a problem with abortion as long as it's done under proper medical care and all the requirements are met. I'm pro choice.


My question for you guys is what advice can you give me on this subject? Whether that be ways to convince them, or points, comparisons, facts, etc. What's your advice for me?

Murder is the unlawful killing of a person.  Is a fetus a person?

A fertilized egg (one cell) does not fit any reasonable definition of person.
Neither does it after dividing once (2 cells).
Nor after it divides again (4 cells).
And so on.

When is the fetus even remotely "a person"?
There isn't a well-developed brain and nervous system until at least 6 months.  
One could reasonably argue that that qualifies as "a person".