Quote:God doesn't murder, He justly punishes.

GC

God is imaginary.  He doesn't do anything.

(March 2, 2016 at 12:33 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote:

Quote:God doesn't murder, He justly punishes.

GC

God is imaginary.  He doesn't do anything.

When you die you will find the truth, don't let that time come while in disbelief.

GC

(March 1, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: Just so you will know and not make the same mistake in the future, the NKJV is one of the newest translations and as for the KJV it was translated during a time where they were not able to translate several of the Greek and Hebrew words. The newer translations have the advantage of our understanding of many of the words they couldn't translate and even some of those they did translate we have learned they have more meanings and some better than those used in the KJV. So you use the translations you want and I'll use the numerous ones I have including the KJV. By the way if you are looking for a Bible that is the closest to a literal translation try the NASV in a study Bible. Now that you have had a little Bible history I'll address your verses you posted.

2 Kings 8:26

2 Chronicles 22:2

The NIV one of my least favorite versions says the same thing about both versions, no difference. 

You are trying to convince me they had trouble translating a number?  They couldn't tell if a symbol was 42 or 22?  That claim is in serious doubt.  It's quite clear that this was scribal error.  God willfully refused to preserve the translations despite the presumed fact that the scribes prayed to God that he would watch over their transcribing process.


I'm not clear on what you say towards the end there.  You seem to say that the NIV is one of your least favorite versions but you trumpet it for getting the two verses to agree?  Also the NKJV has the same error as the KJV, so neither of your favorite versions are perfect... unless of course the error is intended, or perhaps part of the perfection, in which case:

Quote:Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they are married), I can't take her life, God's law and the law of the land both prohibit such an action.

Whether or not you own someone does not change the fact that if you cause them to be fatally ill and then refuse to heal them, you are in fact killing them.  That you are killing them is factual in any universe, in any state of reality, in any context.  So when you say, "God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child," you are being a complete idiot.  End of story.

Quote:God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accidents or natural causes. If God had not allowed a life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said, God takes what is His to start with when He decides to.

Again, EVEN IF this is correct, it's still true that God tortured and killed that baby.

Quote:I knew you would come back with this so I waited to address it only after you decided to show your ignorance of God, it's a learning moment as Drich would say.

Why on earth do you think it would be a good thing for you to compare yourself to that clown?

Quote:I do not have to reconcile anything, I will explain what I know and if I do not know I'll say so.
2 Kings 2:11 Elijah was taken to heaven, this is definitely spiritual as Elijah had to cross from one realm to another.
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God and lived 365 years then God took him away, Enoch also had to cross over from one realm to another making this a spiritual event.
One of these verses is before Moses, the other after, we have put spiritual events on both sides of Deut. 24.
Others
Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.
Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of man; it searches out his in most being.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He (God) has made everything beautiful in time. He has already set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they can not fathom what God has done from beginning to end.   The heart represents the soul or spirit and eternity can only be a spiritual thing.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?
Before you brought up the 3rd chapter of Ecclesiastes you should have read the first verse of chapter 3." There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
The 19th verse you so proudly brought up is speaking of man and animal being made of the dust of the earth and breathing the same air. Yes we are arguing over the translation of one word in this chapter, the word translated either breath or spirit. In this case breath works better with the rest of scripture and even within the context of chapter 3, I'll show you in the next verse.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

If this is all supposed to be so convincing, why did the Sadducees not believe in the afterlife?

Quote:Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor the children put to death for the fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Read the verse carefully, then consider this, not all sin called for man to be put to death for certain sins as a matter of fact few did. Thus verse 19 speaks of the spiritual.

Not all sin called for a dude to be executed, therefore this verse is not talking about execution?  That is possibly the most utterly retarded shit you've said to me. Well, more like top 5 material because you have said some seriously moronic shit in the previous post.

But in case I have to explain this to you, you're basically saying the modern equivalent of,

"Not all crimes require financial reimbursement.  Therefore, any law on the books saying that the son shall not be financially responsible for his dead father's criminal debts is obviously talking about a 'spiritual' debt."

I read the rest of your garbage post where you explain how Jesus had no powers because it was all God the Father doing everything through him.  Apparently you never bothered to look over John 1 where it says Jesus created the entire fucking universe.  Yet according to you he has no powers.  Maybe you are some kind of Mormon-Baptist hybrid.  That would explain your insanity and your stupidity all at once.  The insanity is a small problem but the main thing is that you are just too stupid for an intelligent conversation.

(March 3, 2016 at 1:50 am)Godschild Wrote:

(March 2, 2016 at 12:33 am)Wyrd of Gawd Wrote: God is imaginary.  He doesn't do anything.

When you die you will find the truth, don't let that time come while in disbelief.

GC

You just need some sleep.

(March 4, 2016 at 9:40 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote:

(March 1, 2016 at 10:31 pm)Godschild Wrote: Just so you will know and not make the same mistake in the future, the NKJV is one of the newest translations and as for the KJV it was translated during a time where they were not able to translate several of the Greek and Hebrew words. The newer translations have the advantage of our understanding of many of the words they couldn't translate and even some of those they did translate we have learned they have more meanings and some better than those used in the KJV. So you use the translations you want and I'll use the numerous ones I have including the KJV. By the way if you are looking for a Bible that is the closest to a literal translation try the NASV in a study Bible. Now that you have had a little Bible history I'll address your verses you posted.

2 Kings 8:26

2 Chronicles 22:2

The NIV one of my least favorite versions says the same thing about both versions, no difference. 

You are trying to convince me they had trouble translating a number?  They couldn't tell if a symbol was 42 or 22?  That claim is in serious doubt.  It's quite clear that this was scribal error.  God willfully refused to preserve the translations despite the presumed fact that the scribes prayed to God that he would watch over their transcribing process.

You mean to tell me that you really believe the age of this man changes the entire Bible, that's ridiculous the Bible as a spiritual guide is perfect and without error in this purpose. You nit-pick something so trivial as this, I pity you.

NV Wrote:I'm not clear on what you say towards the end there.  You seem to say that the NIV is one of your least favorite versions but you trumpet it for getting the two verses to agree?  Also the NKJV has the same error as the KJV, so neither of your favorite versions are perfect... unless of course the error is intended, or perhaps part of the perfection, in which case:

I didn't trumpet anything, the least favorite of mine has the same thing said that's all, this version was translated by many different professional linguist and Biblical scholars from many different denominations, by the way I did not say it wasn't good just one of my least favorites. The King James Bible was translated by a few men all believing the same thing and not only that the king that that version was named after tried to influence these men, stick with it if you wish. I know little about the NKJV because when it came out I was told by reliable people not much was changed. To bad too, they had a chance to bring it up to date. Would you stick with the older science books that we now know have grievous errors, most Christians are intelligent enough to find better translations to learn from.  

GC Wrote:Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they are married), I can't take her life, God's law and the law of the land both prohibit such an action.

NV Wrote:Whether or not you own someone does not change the fact that if you cause them to be fatally ill and then refuse to heal them, you are in fact killing them.  That you are killing them is factual in any universe, in any state of reality, in any context.  So when you say, "God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child," you are being a complete idiot.  End of story.

True, for man, as I said we own no one that's why the law applies to man and not God. 
No, you called God a murderer which changes the whole context of what you've presented, you meant He was a murderer, that was your original primes. I have no problem with you saying God took the child's life, He did. God took what belonged to Him, God gave the life it's His right to take what belongs to Him.
Kinda' like you can't actually steal from yourself.

GC Wrote:God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accidents or natural causes. If God had not allowed a life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said, God takes what is His to start with when He decides to.

NV Wrote:Again, EVEN IF this is correct, it's still true that God tortured and killed that baby.

The child was sick for a few days and then died, you do not even know if the child ever was in pain, you are grabbing at straws, stop and let's have an intelligent conversation.

Quote:

GC Wrote:I knew you would come back with this so I waited to address it only after you decided to show your ignorance of God, it's a learning moment as Drich would say.

NV Wrote:Why on earth do you think it would be a good thing for you to compare yourself to that clown?

Drich is not a clown, he's well educated in scripture. We do disagree on somethings however we agree on the most important thing, that salvation through Christ is man's only hope. Besides I think what he said was quite good.

Quote:

---

GC Wrote:I do not have to reconcile anything, I will explain what I know and if I do not know I'll say so.
2 Kings 2:11 Elijah was taken to heaven, this is definitely spiritual as Elijah had to cross from one realm to another.
Genesis 5:24 Enoch walked with God and lived 365 years then God took him away, Enoch also had to cross over from one realm to another making this a spiritual event.
One of these verses is before Moses, the other after, we have put spiritual events on both sides of Deut. 24.
Others
Job 32:8 But it is the spirit in a man, the breath of the Almighty, that gives him understanding.
Proverbs 20:27 The lamp of the LORD searches the spirit of man; it searches out his in most being.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 He (God) has made everything beautiful in time. He has already set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they can not fathom what God has done from beginning to end.   The heart represents the soul or spirit and eternity can only be a spiritual thing.
Ecclesiastes 3:21 Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?
Before you brought up the 3rd chapter of Ecclesiastes you should have read the first verse of chapter 3." There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under heaven."
The 19th verse you so proudly brought up is speaking of man and animal being made of the dust of the earth and breathing the same air. Yes we are arguing over the translation of one word in this chapter, the word translated either breath or spirit. In this case breath works better with the rest of scripture and even within the context of chapter 3, I'll show you in the next verse.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 and the dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

---

NV Wrote:If this is all supposed to be so convincing, why did the Sadducees not believe in the afterlife?

You wanted answers I gave you answers to your question, quit avoiding the truth. You'll have to ask the Sadducees, as far as I know the scriptures do not say.
You need to get honest with yourself when someone answers your questions with truthful answers. 

GC Wrote:Deut. 24:16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor the children put to death for the fathers; each is to die for his own sin. Read the verse carefully, then consider this, not all sin called for man to be put to death for certain sins as a matter of fact few did. Thus verse 19 speaks of the spiritual.

NV Wrote:Not all sin called for a dude to be executed, therefore this verse is not talking about execution?  That is possibly the most utterly retarded shit you've said to me. Well, more like top 5 material because you have said some seriously moronic shit in the previous post.

Citation please, I gave you the verses to show my belief and all you've done is post a verse, make an assumption about it and then precede to call me names after I've shown you to be wrong, typical of many atheist here. Whine little babies I do not want to converse with and don't. I see your deception, you leave out the verses I use, the truth about the scripture you posted and you leave it all out, why, to call me names because you have failed to prove your point of view.

NV Wrote:But in case I have to explain this to you, you're basically saying the modern equivalent of,

"Not all crimes require financial reimbursement.  Therefore, any law on the books saying that the son shall not be financially responsible for his dead father's criminal debts is obviously talking about a 'spiritual' debt."

Now you're playing like a child, what you've said above has no relationship to the verse. I see a desperate child grabbing at any outrageous idea that comes to it's immature mind. I used scripture to show you what the verse means, you use your made up stuff that doesn't even make sense. If your going to disprove what I say use the Bible, you required it of me.

NV Wrote:I read the rest of your garbage post where you explain how Jesus had no powers because it was all God the Father doing everything through him.  Apparently you never bothered to look over John 1 where it says Jesus created the entire fucking universe.  Yet according to you he has no powers.  Maybe you are some kind of Mormon-Baptist hybrid.  That would explain your insanity and your stupidity all at once.  The insanity is a small problem but the main thing is that you are just too stupid for an intelligent conversation.

You continue to use foul language and this ends, period, grow up and at least sound like an adult. I used scripture to prove my point an formed a common sense intelligent belief that happens to be accepted by most Christians. You say I missed things in the scriptures yet I bring passage after passage to prove my points and you've yet to do the same. I've studied and read scripture more times than you will in the next 100 years, I've taught youth from adults. You can't even remember what I stated in my last post, Jesus laid down His powers in heaven to become man, a man able to fall to sin. According to scripture Jesus laid down His power in heaven to become a man, He now has it again and at your death you will find this out, hopefully you'll be on the right side of the tracks.

I bold your last statement above to direct this at it. You are like a ranting young'n who got his butt kicked in a game of kickball or something. My point is this you and I are finished unless you can grow up and ditch the tirades of a spoiled little brat. If we are going to continue discussions you are going to have to follow your own rules and provide scripture to prove your point, you expect it of me and cry if I don't so I'll hold you to this every time.

GC

(February 19, 2016 at 4:46 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(February 17, 2016 at 9:56 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: God is the law. Jesus is God.  Therefore Jesus is the law.

Jesus died for our sins.  Our sins are transgressions against the law.  Therefore, the law died for our transgressions against it.

Is this correct?

No, our sin is against God, God's revealed through the law, these is what I meant when I said God is the law.

GC

Fuck him.  I didn't do anything to your silly god.

Oh, yes, the bible is without error and perfect. I'm all set to believe that Noah was 600 years old and that Methusalem lived to the ripe age of 969.

Without error, indeed.

(March 4, 2016 at 9:35 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(March 4, 2016 at 9:40 am)Nihilist Virus Wrote: You are trying to convince me they had trouble translating a number?  They couldn't tell if a symbol was 42 or 22?  That claim is in serious doubt.  It's quite clear that this was scribal error.  God willfully refused to preserve the translations despite the presumed fact that the scribes prayed to God that he would watch over their transcribing process.

You mean to tell me that you really believe the age of this man changes the entire Bible, that's ridiculous the Bible as a spiritual guide is perfect and without error in this purpose. You nit-pick something so trivial as this, I pity you.

NV Wrote:I'm not clear on what you say towards the end there.  You seem to say that the NIV is one of your least favorite versions but you trumpet it for getting the two verses to agree?  Also the NKJV has the same error as the KJV, so neither of your favorite versions are perfect... unless of course the error is intended, or perhaps part of the perfection, in which case:

I didn't trumpet anything, the least favorite of mine has the same thing said that's all, this version was translated by many different professional linguist and Biblical scholars from many different denominations, by the way I did not say it wasn't good just one of my least favorites. The King James Bible was translated by a few men all believing the same thing and not only that the king that that version was named after tried to influence these men, stick with it if you wish. I know little about the NKJV because when it came out I was told by reliable people not much was changed. To bad too, they had a chance to bring it up to date. Would you stick with the older science books that we now know have grievous errors, most Christians are intelligent enough to find better translations to learn from.  

GC Wrote:Do you realize how ignorant you are about God and His rights. First off, I do not own my wife (you must think a man owns a woman after they are married), I can't take her life, God's law and the law of the land both prohibit such an action.

NV Wrote:Whether or not you own someone does not change the fact that if you cause them to be fatally ill and then refuse to heal them, you are in fact killing them.  That you are killing them is factual in any universe, in any state of reality, in any context.  So when you say, "God did not kill the child, as I said He allowed the child to die. God did strike the child ill and He did not heal the child," you are being a complete idiot.  End of story.

True, for man, as I said we own no one that's why the law applies to man and not God. 
No, you called God a murderer which changes the whole context of what you've presented, you meant He was a murderer, that was your original primes. I have no problem with you saying God took the child's life, He did. God took what belonged to Him, God gave the life it's His right to take what belongs to Him.
Kinda' like you can't actually steal from yourself.

GC Wrote:God as creator of all people has the right to take the life He has given and in some instances He does, but most people die of accidents or natural causes. If God had not allowed a life it would not have been, so even your life is in His hands. This said, God takes what is His to start with when He decides to.

NV Wrote:Again, EVEN IF this is correct, it's still true that God tortured and killed that baby.

The child was sick for a few days and then died, you do not even know if the child ever was in pain, you are grabbing at straws, stop and let's have an intelligent conversation.

NV Wrote:Why on earth do you think it would be a good thing for you to compare yourself to that clown?

Drich is not a clown, he's well educated in scripture. We do disagree on somethings however we agree on the most important thing, that salvation through Christ is man's only hope. Besides I think what he said was quite good.

Quote:[hide]



You wanted answers I gave you answers to your question, quit avoiding the truth. You'll have to ask the Sadducees, as far as I know the scriptures do not say.
You need to get honest with yourself when someone answers your questions with truthful answers. 



Citation please, I gave you the verses to show my belief and all you've done is post a verse, make an assumption about it and then precede to call me names after I've shown you to be wrong, typical of many atheist here. Whine little babies I do not want to converse with and don't. I see your deception, you leave out the verses I use, the truth about the scripture you posted and you leave it all out, why, to call me names because you have failed to prove your point of view.


Now you're playing like a child, what you've said above has no relationship to the verse. I see a desperate child grabbing at any outrageous idea that comes to it's immature mind. I used scripture to show you what the verse means, you use your made up stuff that doesn't even make sense. If your going to disprove what I say use the Bible, you required it of me.


You continue to use foul language and this ends, period, grow up and at least sound like an adult. I used scripture to prove my point an formed a common sense intelligent belief that happens to be accepted by most Christians. You say I missed things in the scriptures yet I bring passage after passage to prove my points and you've yet to do the same. I've studied and read scripture more times than you will in the next 100 years, I've taught youth from adults. You can't even remember what I stated in my last post, Jesus laid down His powers in heaven to become man, a man able to fall to sin. According to scripture Jesus laid down His power in heaven to become a man, He now has it again and at your death you will find this out, hopefully you'll be on the right side of the tracks.

I bold your last statement above to direct this at it. You are like a ranting young'n who got his butt kicked in a game of kickball or something. My point is this you and I are finished unless you can grow up and ditch the tirades of a spoiled little brat. If we are going to continue discussions you are going to have to follow your own rules and provide scripture to prove your point, you expect it of me and cry if I don't so I'll hold you to this every time.

GC

Firstly, you want to say that Jesus had no power on earth and yet he was never denied power by God. In other words, he never said, "is this your card?" and then the people said no. He was never left hanging by God, except for when He was crucified. So however you want to describe his miracles, it is quite factual that my interpretation in your interpretation are indistinguishable.

Now the rest of our argument here is kind of irrelevant to the original post, so before I get into all that stuff some more let me just ask you a couple questions: if I could get you to agree that Deuteronomy 24:16 is talking about a physical death, or a physical execution, then would you agree that I have proven my case? Would you agree that I have provided the backbreaker as advertised? If no, what else do you think I'm lacking in my premises?

(February 9, 2016 at 6:47 pm)Nihilist Virus Wrote: Then in 2 Samuel 12:13-20, David's son is killed by God because of sins committed by David.

I don't think this is the message that is trying to get across. Even if you take the OT literally, which I certainly don't.   

Since the child was innocent of personal sins, we know that he/she would have been received into heaven immediately upon death. And in this way, the child was spared a lifetime of being mocked and scorned by the people of Israel who would have known that the child was the illegitimate son of David resulting from his adultery with Bathsheba.  

Basically, the child was not punished for what David did, as you seem to think. But rather, God showed mercy to the child by taking it to heaven. 

Innocent of personal sins?  Irrelevant.  Are we or are we not fallen, inheriting the sin of our "first parents"...catholic? That out of the way, that you think being stricken with illness and murdered is a mercy demonstrates the petty cruelty inherent in your god derived "objective" moral landscape. Go play in traffic, and keep your mitts off the kiddos.