Wonder if anyone would follow a religion if they had to be bludgeoned on the head to see the visions and hear the voice of their god.

It's a more severe analogy to the christian saying of "You have to have faith to see/hear god".

(June 25, 2015 at 11:22 am)Psychonaut Wrote: I know the question seems nonsensical, but hear me out. 

I've often encountered my fellow atheists say that there's no evidence for God's existence. This seems true, but I think that the answer may be fairly loaded.
Does it come across to anyone that people sometimes assume we can get evidence to begin with? or is it just me? 
I know a fair portion of atheists would disagree, and that everyone knows that you're really saying

"no, and there really is no way to get evidence for such nonsense".


If we can't get evidence, because evidence (at least by scientific standards) is by it's very nature falsifiable,
(something which the god claim can't provide [currently]) then what would anyone constitute as evidence? Are those who use the "we don't have evidence yet" claim literally, deceived?

Seeing it with our own eyes? How would we know it's not a hallucination?
If by some chance we are provided falsifiability, how would we know we aren't deceived by an alien hallucination inducing device?
(Pardon the bong logic format)

If evidence can't point us toward or away from answers to this kind of question, are they even reasonable to ask? 
How could anyone who is honestly seeking an answer be expected to come up with one in the face of such obstacles?

Given what is said, does anyone think that there is evidence that would convince them that God exists?

Great post!

Generally speaking in the rational worldview we regard valid "evidence" as existing in the form of some sort of physical entity (some sort of physical object) or some sort of conceptual object  (a good line of reasoning) that we can SHARE.

so, evidence is often thought of as something that we can OFFER to one another. 

is there any other sort of evidence? i would suggest - yes. there is evidence personally experienced which we can't actually share. 

if i was alone on a desert island, and witnessed some weird event, it might be that i'm not in a position to share evidence of that event with other humans. 

i would argue that we are all in possession of such an experience. an experience we know for fact is true, but which we can't share.

the fact of our own existence, or consciousness. consciousness itself is an entirely subjective experience, so proof of the experience cannot be transferred to another human, because it's not an object. 

there's no evidence you can offer another individual for your own subjective conscious experience. 

so we've already got a situation of 7 billion people on the planet each having direct (e.g. factual) experience of their own existence which they can't actually prove to anyone, because the *experience* is not an object!

now extend that to the possibility of "religious" experience. you are already in possession of a fact you can't prove. where does that leave you if you demand objective proof of others of their truth claims? when you can't prove your own known positions?

Existence is evidence for God. Checkm8, lmao hand over the forum

(January 25, 2016 at 11:11 pm)Annoyingbutnicetheist Wrote: Existence is evidence for God. Checkm8, lmao hand over the forum

Illogical, try again bitch.

As in why should existence even exist? Must be God brooo

(January 25, 2016 at 11:11 pm)Annoyingbutnicetheist Wrote: Existence is evidence for God. Checkm8, lmao hand over the forum

In what way, shape or form?  There is no evidence whatsoever, in any way, shape or form for the existence of a god, therefore, there is no god.

Books, anecdotes, feelings and 'little voices in the head' are all you guys got and that ain't shit for evidence or one could prove anything to exist.

(January 25, 2016 at 6:05 am)Red_Wind Wrote: Wonder if anyone would follow a religion if they had to be bludgeoned on the head to see the visions and hear the voice of their god.

It's a more severe analogy to the christian saying of "You have to have faith to see/hear god".

Ask and ye shall receive.

Self-flagellation is the act of hitting oneself with a whip as part of a religious ritual.

(January 26, 2016 at 1:53 am)IATIA Wrote:

(January 25, 2016 at 11:11 pm)Annoyingbutnicetheist Wrote: Existence is evidence for God. Checkm8, lmao hand over the forum

In what way, shape or form?  There is no evidence whatsoever, in any way, shape or form for the existence of a god, therefore, there is no god.

Books, anecdotes, feelings and 'little voices in the head' are all you guys got and that ain't shit for evidence or one could prove anything to exist.

Don't go out of your way to be a nimrod. But there is evidence for intelligence; information exist; information comes from intelligence.

(January 9, 2016 at 3:41 am)Heat Wrote:

(January 9, 2016 at 3:19 am)snowtracks Wrote: God nature always included 'mind'. The mind gives consciousness and in term volition, causal powers, and intentionality; these are things likewise that humans process since they are made in the image of God and these attributes will continue to be sustained in human nature by God after death (someone was asking about freewill continuing in the eternal state) since man like God is a spiritually being.

More like things God possesses because he is made in the image of Humans.

Image equates to the Spirit each person possesses and one aspect of that is God placed eternity within them; everyone knows they will always exist, and who made them. "The fool SAYS in their heart there is no God"; it doesn't say THINK in their heart. Everyone believes in God. This pretense with the 'evidence' is a façade in most cases, for rejection of God's authority not His existence.

I don't believe in your "God". Proclamation falsified.