(March 27, 2016 at 11:59 am)robvalue Wrote: Thank you LFC, you're welcome! I'm glad you like it Thanks for the feedback!

As for cabbages and rocks, the usual definition tends to exclude them:

Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Although cabbages still do pretty well considering.

CABBAGES AND ROCKS ARE PEOPLE TOO! STOP BEING SUCH A LIFE-IST! INORGANIC MATERIALS HAVE FEELINGS TOO!

You're right, I'm sorry. Also, people are cabbages.

Rocks may have feelings. We don't know. If they do, our morality would have to be totally rethought. This is why morality must depend on beliefs and knowledge, and not just raw outcomes. It's probabilistic, like all our judgements.

(March 27, 2016 at 12:08 pm)robvalue Wrote: You're right, I'm sorry. Also, people are cabbages.

Rocks may have feelings. We don't know. If they do, our morality would have to be totally rethought. This is why morality must depend on beliefs and knowledge, and not just raw outcomes. It's probabilistic, like all our judgements.

Actually, it just occurred to me cabbage IS composed of organic material, silly me. 

Rocks totally have feelings, they speak to me (just call me the rock whisperer, I'll have my own successful television program one of these days).

Cabbage: n.

A familiar kitchen-garden vegetable about as large and wise as a man's head.

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

(March 27, 2016 at 11:59 am)robvalue Wrote: As for cabbages and rocks, the usual definition tends to exclude them:

Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Indeed not all living things are capable of forming beliefs, including those humans that have not yet gained the maturity to do so. How do you defend the meme posted earlier? It showed some babies with the caption "we are all born atheists." The point of the OP is that simple non-belief is not sufficient. Such a claim places babies and cabbages in the same category. It is absurd and shows how stupid the "simple disbelief" definition is.

(March 28, 2016 at 10:22 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 11:59 am)robvalue Wrote: As for cabbages and rocks, the usual definition tends to exclude them:

Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Indeed not all living things are capable of forming beliefs, including those humans that have not yet gained the maturity to do so. How do you defend the meme posted earlier? It showed some babies with the caption "we are all born atheists." The point of the OP is that simple non-belief is not sufficient. Such a claim places babies and cabbages in the same category. It is absurd and shows how stupid the "simple disbelief" definition is.

(March 28, 2016 at 10:22 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 11:59 am)robvalue Wrote: As for cabbages and rocks, the usual definition tends to exclude them:

Atheist: A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

Indeed not all living things are capable of forming beliefs, including those humans that have not yet gained the maturity to do so. How do you defend the meme posted earlier? It showed some babies with the caption "we are all born atheists." The point of the OP is that simple non-belief is not sufficient. Such a claim places babies and cabbages in the same category. It is absurd and shows how stupid the "simple disbelief" definition is.

There is that condescending tone I was talking about! [emoji6]. Chad, I have never once seen you even try to put forth one good, rational reason to believe in God. You say you aren't out to convert anyone, but at the same time you seem to enjoy telling atheists they aren't capable of living full, and meaningful lives without belief. Come on. Right now. Give us your best argument for the Christian God. Blow us away with your enlightenment. Oh and, "really smart philosophers think you should" doesn't count. I'll be here...holding my breath.

(March 28, 2016 at 10:22 am)ChadWooters Wrote:

(March 27, 2016 at 11:59 am)robvalue Wrote: ..

The point of the OP is that simple non-belief is not sufficient. Such a claim places babies and cabbages in the same category. It is absurd and shows how stupid the "simple disbelief" definition is.

"Not sufficient" for what purpose?

I don't believe in a god, because I recognise that it is necessary to have some means of verifying what I believe, if I am to avoid adopting erroneous beliefs.

Not believing in god falls into the same category as not believing in anything else for which there are no means of verification and which are inconsistent with commonly observable physical laws (e.g. Santa Claus).

What is this position not "sufficient" for? (apart from strapping a suicide bomb to my chest and believing I'm going to get 72 virgins if I set it off)

I don't just have a lack of belief, I positively do believe it's a load of old crap. I just don't assume everyone else shares my position. Why it bothers you so much, I don't know. It's the intellectually honest stance for someone who isn't sure either way. I'm not sure what kind of marginal victory you're going for here, but there's nothing to be done. I didn't make the meme you're saying I should defend. It was probably having a bit of a laugh at how stupid this all is.

My video laid out why apologetics is useless when not backed by evidence. Not that I'd care if there was a weird being watching me, if that makes him happy then great.

Yes, you could technically say a cabbage lacks belief. In everything. But an atheist is a person, so I don't understand the problem.

If a claim is put to you, you can believe the claim is true, you can believe it is false, or you can not have a belief either way. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

I'm happy to own my belief. Barely coherent, fantastical claims backed by no evidence deserve to be assumed false, in all likelihood. As soon as evidence turns up, I'll be happy to reconsider. Some people prefer to entirely reserve judgement for their beliefs, and they are entitled to do so.

With regard to a sensible "God" claim that doesn't pile on word salad, I simply lack belief. But for stupid cartoon characters, I'm happy to believe they are not real.