I don't usually stray into the political waters but I thought I'd vomit up some thoughts.

What are you opinions on the US immigration process. I think it's broken. My real question though is twofold

1) Why would you want to move into a Country because it espouses "freedom" and "equality" and in the process of petitioning directly attack the sense of patriotism of said country? Doesn't that seem counterproductive? I mean as humans, why do we have the need to spead out into a new cultral territory and make that territory more like where we came from? I appreciate diversity and cultral recognition, but why do we need terms like xxxxxxx-american? If you were born in America, or are a nationalized citizen, wouldn't you just be american? I understand that a persons culture and heritage are important to the crux of who they are, but if you're going to change the culture of the territory you move to, why move? Is opportunity worth sacrificing a little personal pride and public heritage (not private)? Is there a cost/ sacrifice for moving to the US? Should there be?

2) What's the big deal about border enforcement? If someone breaks into your house with the intent to make it their own, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot them? In my opinion do it all the way or not at all, stop half assing everything. Opinions?

You sound like a total bigot.

That's my opinion.

Can't say fuck all about the US immigration problem, it's harder for them to get here. In our case I'm only for letting people in when there is a genuine shortage in skilled labor in the specific area, they can bring their culture with them all they like, in fact I welcome it.

(March 30, 2011 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: 1) Why would you want to move into a Country because it espouses "freedom" and "equality" and in the process of petitioning directly attack the sense of patriotism of said country?

There's really no link between freedom/equality and patriotism. This is a common fallacy put forward by authoritarians. "If you don't support your country's every action, you don't believe in freedom"
It's complete nonsense.

Quote:I appreciate diversity and cultral recognition, but why do we need terms like xxxxxxx-american? If you were born in America, or are a nationalized citizen, wouldn't you just be american? I understand that a persons culture and heritage are important to the crux of who they are, but if you're going to change the culture of the territory you move to, why move? Is opportunity worth sacrificing a little personal pride and public heritage (not private)? Is there a cost/ sacrifice for moving to the US? Should there be?

So...
"I appreciate diversity and cultural recognition... *statement about cultural diversity being a bad thing* "

What?

In England we have a joke about Daily Mail readers that whenever they start a sentence with the phrase "I'm not racist, but..." it's invariably followed by a racist statement. This paragraph really reminded me of that.
If you want to speak against cultural diversity, fine, of course you have the right to do that, but don't be dishonest by preceding it with a false statement in an attempt to artificially make your position sound more socially acceptable.

Quote:2) What's the big deal about border enforcement? If someone breaks into your house with the intent to make it their own, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot them? In my opinion do it all the way or not at all, stop half assing everything. Opinions?

No, because my house is insured, if someone tries to squat, I'm covered for that. So I have to live somewhere else temporarily. So what? I'd much rather that than live the rest of my life as a murderer.

Secondly, the analogy is flawed anyway. If someone "makes your house their own", you can't live there anymore. Not so with immigration.
Ownership of a house is very simple, by one person. The running of your house can be controlled by you alone. Not so with a country, that's called a dictatorship, and they tend to be rather unpleasant places to live.

Are you seriously advocating killing in the name of protecting an arbitrary line on a map?

I like people migrating, it broadens the minds of "natives" and migrants alike. What I'm uncool with however, is immigrants deciding they have nothing but contempt for the culture and customs of the host country. If I were to go to Korea I would make an effort to learn the language and customs; when in Rome, you dig?

Bag of worms this one.

(March 30, 2011 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: 2) What's the big deal about border enforcement? If someone breaks into your house with the intent to make it their own, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot them? In my opinion do it all the way or not at all, stop half assing everything. Opinions?

So you're advocating shooting people on sight when protecting borders?

@ib.me.ub-hence my rare excursion from the religion section.


@skipper- No not on sight, not as an immediate response. Maybe an escalating deterrent. A wall with signs and audio broadcasts, then a caltrop/razor wire area 100 ft beyond, then patrol for detaining and perimeter intrusion equipment. If they escape with violence/continue to force their way in they obviously have no concern for their own safety and then I would advocate the use of deadly force. I know it's completely impractical and costly, but do it well or not at all. It should either be free coming and going, or a valid screening process and border protection. There is always a point when "no you can't come in" means "no" and if you're going to make that statment you should be prepared for people that can't take no for an answer. Personally I'd just see them completely opened while we attempted to repair our national deficit.

Quote:If someone breaks into your house with the intent to make it their own, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot them?

Except they are crossing the border to trim my shrubs and Americans won't do that kind of work. I'm in Arizona which is ground zero for nut bag republican assholes who love guns and hate Mexicans. This whole "immigration" debate is nothing more than racism and, if you doubt that, ask why white Canadians are never part of the equation.

(March 30, 2011 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: I don't usually stray into the political waters but I thought I'd vomit up some thoughts.

What are you opinions on the US immigration process. I think it's broken. My real question though is twofold

I would say that the immigration process for becoming a US citizen is broken in the sense that it's far too obtuse and difficult for anyone to get into the US.
It's also too easy to get into the US illegally. This dynamic needs to be switched.

(March 30, 2011 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: 1) Why would you want to move into a Country because it espouses "freedom" and "equality" and in the process of petitioning directly attack the sense of patriotism of said country? Doesn't that seem counterproductive? I mean as humans, why do we have the need to spead out into a new cultral territory and make that territory more like where we came from? I appreciate diversity and cultral recognition, but why do we need terms like xxxxxxx-american? If you were born in America, or are a nationalized citizen, wouldn't you just be american? I understand that a persons culture and heritage are important to the crux of who they are, but if you're going to change the culture of the territory you move to, why move? Is opportunity worth sacrificing a little personal pride and public heritage (not private)? Is there a cost/ sacrifice for moving to the US? Should there be?

Just people people move to the US and want to become a US citizen, doesn't mean they want to spurn their heritage. Many immigrants like having their cake and eating it too - and they can. Being called an islamo-american or african american or japanese-american is saying is simultaneously respecting where they're from and who they are. There's no shame in that.

(March 30, 2011 at 7:25 am)tackattack Wrote: 2) What's the big deal about border enforcement? If someone breaks into your house with the intent to make it their own, and you had a gun, wouldn't you shoot them? In my opinion do it all the way or not at all, stop half assing everything. Opinions?

Shooting people for trying to find a better life for themselves is immoral, but better border security means better internal security for the US as well in terms of law enforcement. More protections against illegal contraband coming into the US illegally is always welcome.